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Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

independent.co.uk

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Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#181

Post by swatcoder »

HyperSane wrote: post #178
AdrianB1 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend that is a doctor specialized in metabolic problems told me that around 5% of the cases of obesity have some medical cause, not eating too much. 5% is low, but it is a lot more than "very few exceptions". (Disclaimer: the number is for Europe, I have no idea what is in US)

All obesity is fundamentally caused by eating too much because fat contains energy that HAS to come from food.

Technically right is the most reliable kind of right, but in this case “too much” means that someone’s body responds differently than expected to the same amount of food.

It’s true that the extra stored fat might must come from calories not used or excreted elsewhere, but that might be because their body is very poor at making immediate use of the calories as energy or is unusually efficient at storing energy that might otherwise be used. To put a number to it, a 2000 calorie diet as normally recommended may leave them depleted of energy and increasingly fat.

It can take years to discover that kind of “outside the norm” issue, and obesity can easily set in before its recognized let alone addressed. And of course, once obesity does become a part of someone’s life, there’s a whole spiral of challenges that make it hard to overcome. Even moreso when your body doesn’t work normally.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#182

Post by harimau777 »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #71
HDThoreaun wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food is cheaper and tastes better.the solution isn’t expensive bland food. It’s these drugs.

Amazing how there's no room for self-control or accountability in these discussions. There's a reason most of the world isn't addicted to heroin...

Other countries have better public policies for treating addiction?

Other countries outlaw advertising drugs to consumers?

Other countries have lower rates of industrial injuries leading to lower rates of painkiller dependence?

Other countries have functioning social safety nets leading to less deaths of despair?

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#183

Post by AdrianB1 »

alyandon wrote: post #24
cowpig wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US healthcare system is systematically broken. I've sworn off doing business in that sector because the cultural attitude that insurance companies have towards payment has infected everything. You can't trust anything anyone says about how much they will pay for something. Some kind of drawn-out, adversarial process around payment collection is the expectation. Sorry for that rant I am a bit traumatized by my exp…

It is absolutely insane what insurance companies will actually pay for - mine was fulling willing to pay $1250 for a simple ultrasound procedure at a hospital facility vs $150 at a specialty clinic. I made the smart decision to have it done at the clinic but it isn't like I'm going to be rewarded for that decision by paying lower premiums.

The insurance companies have huge discounts, even 90% for many procedures. The price list is usually for uninsured people, not what is ever paid by insurance.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#184

Post by HyperSane »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #180
HyperSane wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With very few exceptions obesity is simply the result of eating more calories than needed for a long time. Very obese people eat a LOT of food. 10,000 calories/day for years is not uncommon.

Great. Now answer why they eat that much.

Addiction to the dopamine rush it gives them.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#185

Post by toofy »

fourseventy wrote: post #143
ralmidani wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you regarding the general population. I also hope we can agree that not everyone attains meaningful weight loss with just diet and exercise. The human body is incredibly complex, with a spectrum of natural compositions, metabolisms, etc. Your post dismissing these nuances risks being interpreted as “thin privilege” (my wife is a Dietitian and taught me the concept). For what it’s worth, I’m against treat…

I can't take anyone seriously who uses the phrase "thin privilege".

and many of us can’t take anyone seriously who dismisses nuance in one of the most incredibly complex topics which involve: biology, psychology, economics, etc… as you did in your original post.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#186

Post by wincy »

HyperSane wrote: post #162
wonderwonder wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Diabetes patients think people with obesity are stealing their drug, as it’s currently only approved for the treatment of T2D (though FDA approval for the treatment of obesity may come as soon as this summer.) People with obesity are angry that obesity isn’t recognized as a disease. And users who can’t afford it say they’ve been abandoned by Big Pharma." Always amazing when an article is verified in real time

With very few exceptions obesity is simply the result of eating more calories than needed for a long time. Very obese people eat a LOT of food. 10,000 calories/day for years is not uncommon.

I agree with you, but have a few qualifiers about it.

I decided I want to lose weight for the third time in my life. A few weeks I was probably eating 5,000 calories a day. I’ve lost 15 pounds in three weeks. Basically before every day I’d eat and eat and never ever feel full. My stomach would hurt, I’d throw up every day, I felt tired and shitty every single day.

Now I can barely managed to eat 1400 calories a day. I’m eating red meat and kimchi, basically. That’s my diet. Once a week I’ll crave a nice big salad with mushrooms and olives and ranch dressing. I feel great. If I try to exceed that calorie amount I’ll feel super satiated (not full, like physically full) and stop mid bite, and save the rest for later. It feels like a long dormant part of my mind that controls calorie intake suddenly has a voice again and that voice has been drowned out for years.

So I mean it’s easy to say “it’s just calories”, but why when I eat a standard American diet am I craving thousands of extra calories per day and that stops when I eat like this? Even stranger, why do I relapse into these habits when I eat even a small amount of food like French fries or ice cream, over and over again? I know precisely why I’m fat, exactly what to do to lose weight, it’s not even difficult, but unless I have a very strong motivation to lose it I just don’t.

Most people don’t even have the requisite knowledge of how to deal with hunger cravings and get themselves in a state where they’re losing at all. They’ll eat chicken breast and a salad with no dressing then wonder why they feel awful because they’re not getting nourishment, then binge on ice cream. So how is the average person supposed to lose weight?

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#187

Post by Dove »

HyperSane wrote: post #178
AdrianB1 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend that is a doctor specialized in metabolic problems told me that around 5% of the cases of obesity have some medical cause, not eating too much. 5% is low, but it is a lot more than "very few exceptions". (Disclaimer: the number is for Europe, I have no idea what is in US)

All obesity is fundamentally caused by eating too much because fat contains energy that HAS to come from food.

Well, blood sugar contains energy that has to come from somewhere, too, but one would hardly say this means type 2 diabetes is fundamentally caused by eating too much. Shoot, tumors contain energy that has to come from somewhere...

Of course, you could rightly reply that there are a lot of complicated things that happen between the food and the problem, and while those diseases require an energy surplus, that neither causes them, nor does trying to naively eliminate the energy surplus fix them. Contrary to popular wisdom, the same is true of obesity.

The idea that obesity could be avoided or cured with a little bookkeeping and self control is laughable to just about anyone who has tried. Telling obese people to eat less is like telling depressed people to get over it. You'd be astonished by how ultimately impossible that is if you haven't been there.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#188

Post by perfecthjrjth »

HyperSane wrote: post #178
AdrianB1 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend that is a doctor specialized in metabolic problems told me that around 5% of the cases of obesity have some medical cause, not eating too much. 5% is low, but it is a lot more than "very few exceptions". (Disclaimer: the number is for Europe, I have no idea what is in US)

All obesity is fundamentally caused by eating too much because fat contains energy that HAS to come from food.

Calories In Calories Out (CICO) doesn't explain obesity. You are dealing with biochemical machines (humans). CI enters this biochemical machine; here, the signal system should be effective to 'equalize'. Otherwise, you get all kinds of problems: obesity, t2d, cardiovascular events, etc.

These new generation of drugs (semaglutide, tirzapatide) deal with the signaling system (endocrine signaling, that is).

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#189

Post by [deleted] »

lincolnq wrote: post #155
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely eating healthier and exercising costs less than $12k a year right?

…no? Exercising 2h/week (close to the minimum) costs 100 hours per year, at $100/hr that’s close to 10k already and that doesn’t include the attention cost, or anything to do with diet

[deleted]

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#190

Post by wincy »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #137
insapio wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take Mounjaro. For obesity. I thought back in '05 when I first started learning about DPP-4 inhibitors it wouldn't be too long before we realized obesity/T2DM were aspects of the same whole, but it'd take decades before we got to an effective therapy. This is pretty much it. Zero side effects (other than the side effects from losing weight too fast, still have to pay attention to diet). We'll see if there's long te…

Surely eating healthier and exercising costs less than $12k a year right?

Exercising has nothing to do with weight loss, although it’s still good for you with obvious benefits. Just losing weight is in my experience purely diet if you’re living any sort of standard American lifestyle where you’re really sedentary, or even moderately active. Maybe if you were like thru hiking you’d lose weight from exercise?
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