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Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

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Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#281

Post by sakopov »

didip wrote: post #161
kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

Car-centric culture and gun-centric culture is making our society to be like this. Also, most states defund mental health institutions. Finally, the 24/7 news cycle covers a lot of crazy behaviors, encouraging copycats to one-up the crime even more. Is it a surprise if Americans are more paranoid than ever?

US is in immense mental illness epidemic crisis. That's it. Everything else is a side effect stemming from this.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#282

Post by alluro2 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #105
pilarphosol wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a low trust society, because of all the poverty. You really notice the difference if you travel to Europe. It turns out that having half of the population be economically unsafe makes everyone and everything unsafe.

I've been through a lof of the balkan areas in the 1990s, also yugoslavia/serbia during the sanctions before the 1999 nato bombing and fast after, and during all those times in all those areas there was A LOT of poverty. Kids were playing outside all the time... from urban belgrade, parks and playgrounds surrounded by huge socialist buildings, to rural villages. Going to school? Sure, kids 7, 8, 9yo walking alone to…

I can back that claim. Unfortunately, it's no longer the case - not exclusively for the low trust reason, though - but that kids of school age, in my experience, now largely rush home after school to text to their same group of friends they just physically separated from, and play games.

I believe the altered persona they can assume when texting, and freedom of expression they can have using that medium, over doing it in person, is of very high appeal, and something I find concerning for the future of society...

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#283

Post by sashank_1509 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #90
pilarphosol wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a low trust society, because of all the poverty. You really notice the difference if you travel to Europe. It turns out that having half of the population be economically unsafe makes everyone and everything unsafe.

I grew up in India, a much poorer nation than the US, and I played outside all the time, walking to relatives' houses and going to hang out with friends. I highly doubt it's the poverty causing this kind of thing in the US. Seems more to me the high amount of media "stranger danger" affecting people's viewpoints.

the highest murder rate in US is 15.8 Louisiana while the highest in India is 6.5 (Patna). Most places in India have half or lesser murder rates compared to the average in US. India in general is just a much safer country, not in the same league as China, Japan but far safer than US. Growing up in Bangalore, I walked the streets regularly at 2AM when I was a teen, something that I’m scared to do as a full grown adult in SF

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#284

Post by omegaham »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #212
andrepd wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, a reasonable risk is tolerable. But, for instance, car-centric infrastructure has *intensely* exacerbated those risks: space is completely surrendered to cars, sidewalks are non-existent, crosswalks go across 8 lanes of 60+mph traffic. All of this, plus terrible public transport, makes it impossible to travel anyway except by car. This leads to lack of independence for children, and sedentarism.

It feels like this infrastructural risk is media driven to the extent of "pedophile kidnappers" or "razor blades in apples". For example I grew up in an Eastern MA "suburb" in the mid 90s - early 2000s, characterized by narrow winding roads, fast drivers, and no streetlights. Everyone too young or unconnected to have car access bicycled or walked everywhere; parents were a bit fearful but ultimately acquiescent ("bet…

Yep, I grew up in the woodsy part of Framingham up by Route 20. A whole bunch of those roads are outright dangerous. My parents groused about how dangerous it was, but mostly trusted me not to be stupid.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#285

Post by samtho »

zamadatix wrote: post #246
qball wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard people actually say that if a kid is playing outside by themselves, then the parent should be charged with child neglect because the kid could get hurt. Giving concern trolls the ability to use the State's guns on whatever personally offends them always ends badly.

Why concern trolling in particular rather than good old traditional fake concern?

I’m guessing that OP can’t even comprehend what reasonable person of rational mind would report a child in no immediate danger for being neglected. OP is calling it trolling because it’s hard to believe people are that stupid and therefore must be doing it simply to harass others.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#286

Post by Falkon1313 »

gretch wrote: post #185
anigbrowl wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to believe either of you. What you offered was not responsive to his claim because it didn't address risks to children, which are the topic.

You can’t not believe either of us. He said a thing and I said it’s false. If you don’t believe him then you agree with me. This btw is the correct course of logic since the burden of proof is on the asserter.

Well yes. So you asserted a thing and didn't prove it.

Therefore the correct course of logic is to dismiss your assertion.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#287

Post by devtul »

45453836 wrote: post #280
kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

Imo there's two factors at play only one of which seems to get much attention. There's the legality (and burden of compliance even when abiding the law) of leaving your children unsupervised but there's also the complete lack of penalty for being wrong. A person reporting abuse incorrectly is for all intents and purposes, an attacker. Why is attacking someone else with only a brief observation of the situation cost f…

Charge $5 bucks for some type of reports, it's a small annoyance which should be nothing for someone truly concerned.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#288

Post by [deleted] »

xyzelement wrote: post #153
andrepd wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car-centric infrastructure and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

I am really surprised every time I see this vehement hatred of cars. I lived in NYC my whole life and didn't have a car, but now we got kids so we happily moved for the house-and-car-in-the-burbs life and it's absolutely better. People make this choice for a reason. Just curious, do you have a family and do you shlep them by bus everywhere?

[deleted]

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#289

Post by vore »

claytongulick wrote: post #278
vore wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately?

It is indeed fortunate that certain groups of people have not been successful in equating spanking with abuse, from a legal standpoint. Reasonable and clearly defined punishments that include spanking as the "nuclear option" are part of a parent's toolkit. Child rearing is hard. I've been doing it for 24 years straight now with four kids. Kids are different and don't respond the same to punishments. What works for on…

If I (non-consensually) spank an adult, that's abuse. If I spank an animal, that's also abuse. But if I spank a child, that's somehow magically not abuse?

Most of Europe has been getting along fine without physically hitting their children for discipline. Parents should not be teaching their children that pain compliance is an acceptable method for getting what they want.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#290

Post by anigbrowl »

gretch wrote: post #185
anigbrowl wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to believe either of you. What you offered was not responsive to his claim because it didn't address risks to children, which are the topic.

You can’t not believe either of us. He said a thing and I said it’s false. If you don’t believe him then you agree with me. This btw is the correct course of logic since the burden of proof is on the asserter.

I have yet to make up my mind - a possibility that seems not to have occurred to you.
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