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Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

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Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#181

Post by gedy »

Aeolun wrote: post #154
danjoredd wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also depends on where you live. If you are a suburban or rural kid, playing outside all you want is fine. Let them explore the neighborhood. If you live near a highway though, or a high crime area, then you might want to reconsider what you want to allow. You still need common sense. My main worry is people who live in relatively safe areas, like a suburban neighborhood, but with neighbors that will STILL call CPS…

> a high crime area What exactly do you expect to happen to your 6 year old? They’re not a very useful target for anything I can think of.

Perverts?

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#182

Post by teawrecks »

cryptonector wrote: post #149
kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

The U.S. federal government gives the States' child protection service agencies money grants that are conditional on those agencies actually taking children from their homes. You get what you subsidize, and if you subsidize petty tyranny, you'll get petty tyranny.

I had friends who should have been taken away from their neglecting parents, but never were. Turns out, if the child is not being literally beaten, all the parent has to do is not open the door when child services comes by.

So if the child's teeth literally rot out of their mouth, they wear filthy clothes to school, they live in a house full of cat shit everywhere, and a rotted away caved in roof, all the parent has to do is continue smoking, drinking and browsing the internet. No one could do anything about it. Those kids' lives were ruined.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#183

Post by Aeolun »

ackfoobar wrote: post #136
s1artibartfast wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a very unrelated issue to someone being an investigated for letting their children do homework on the front lawn

car dependent development takes away children's independence -> people are not used to seeing kids outside -> they freak out when they see an unaccompanied child

Maybe if she’d been doing her homework in the car on the front lawn, it wouldn’t stoke such fears?

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#184

Post by notch898a »

teawrecks wrote: post #182
cryptonector wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. federal government gives the States' child protection service agencies money grants that are conditional on those agencies actually taking children from their homes. You get what you subsidize, and if you subsidize petty tyranny, you'll get petty tyranny.

I had friends who should have been taken away from their neglecting parents, but never were. Turns out, if the child is not being literally beaten, all the parent has to do is not open the door when child services comes by. So if the child's teeth literally rot out of their mouth, they wear filthy clothes to school, they live in a house full of cat shit everywhere, and a rotted away caved in roof, all the parent has…

There are sadly some places where the courts/CPS will avoid removing them even in such a situation because their temporary care situation available from the state is so fucked that they're better off in literally any situation where they aren't beat/molested. Some parts of the US have truly dire situation with not enough quality foster car parents and basically a lord-of-the-flies temporary home available chock-full of kids with various unique and difficult to live with issues.

You wouldn't remove a kid from a cat shit/dirty clothes/rotten teeth situation to toss them into lord of the flies with 9 kids who have violent tendencies as a result of being treated even worse.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#185

Post by gretch »

anigbrowl wrote: post #139
gretch wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay don't do it. Instead you're just going to believe the guy who cited nothing? Live your life however you want I guess...

I'm not going to believe either of you. What you offered was not responsive to his claim because it didn't address risks to children, which are the topic.

You can’t not believe either of us. He said a thing and I said it’s false. If you don’t believe him then you agree with me.

This btw is the correct course of logic since the burden of proof is on the asserter.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#186

Post by paxys »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

It's not really a problem in the US either. Kids are walking or biking unsupervised everywhere. Only a few isolated cases like the one you mentioned make the headlines.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#187

Post by Aeolun »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #144
sli wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a related cultural factor. The more we build our outdoor spaces to accommodate cars over people, the more notable it becomes when there are people in them.

That doesn't really explain the differences though. Car culture and design was as prevalent in the 40s-90's too, which basically defined the ideal of suburban sprawl. However, those spaces were also filled with children, often literally playing sports in the streets.

Parents and elderly at the time had grown up with playing in the street, so they could hardly be bothered by it. Now we have the next generation that has only known cars (oddly enough probably the ones that played in the street).

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#188

Post by qball »

danjoredd wrote: post #100
kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

Its been a genuine problem. I have heard people actually say that if a kid is playing outside by themselves, then the parent should be charged with child neglect because the kid could get hurt. Any time a kid gets hurt on YouTube the comments are filled with people blaming the parent for not being outside with them. Thing is, playing outside by yourself gives you a strong sense of independence. The kid might get hurt…

>I have heard people actually say that if a kid is playing outside by themselves, then the parent should be charged with child neglect because the kid could get hurt.

Giving concern trolls the ability to use the State's guns on whatever personally offends them always ends badly.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#189

Post by bluGill »

Aeolun wrote: post #154
danjoredd wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also depends on where you live. If you are a suburban or rural kid, playing outside all you want is fine. Let them explore the neighborhood. If you live near a highway though, or a high crime area, then you might want to reconsider what you want to allow. You still need common sense. My main worry is people who live in relatively safe areas, like a suburban neighborhood, but with neighbors that will STILL call CPS…

> a high crime area What exactly do you expect to happen to your 6 year old? They’re not a very useful target for anything I can think of.

Mostly kidnapped by the parent that doesn't have custody. Once in a while other aunts or uncles who don't approve of the way their brother/sister is raising kids.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#190

Post by gedy »

jdminhbg wrote: post #176
henrikschroder wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made the same observation when I moved to the US, it was so weird to me that SF the city is pretty much devoid of children. They're all effectively locked up and prohibited from roaming. No-one trusts children, no-one trusts adults around children, no-one trusts strangers. But I went skiing in Lake Tahoe one weekend, and suddenly all of that disappeared. Suddenly, you have children freely interacting with strangers…

San Francisco is actually last in US cities for proportion of population under 18 years: https://www.aaastateofplay.com/the-u-s-cities-with-the-most-...

I remember watching 'The Phantom Tollbooth', which is set in San Francisco and has the main boy walking home from school through the city, and feeling how odd that seems now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Tollbooth_(film)

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