Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills • Hacker News Board

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#131

Post by em-bee » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:47 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #128

em-bee wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's not a contradiction. if society in hungary is low trust (which i doubt btw, unless something changed since i was there last more than a decade ago) then this low trust does not extend to the safety of their children. letting kids wander about shows high trust in their kids not getting into danger. in the US people don't even trust that.

So let me get this straight, trust is measured on multiple axis except for the axis of children which sets the maximum?

trust is measured on multiple axis, period. no exception.

the US have low trust when it comes to children. Hungary does not. Hungary may still be low trust on other axis.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#132

Post by sli » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:47 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #113

acuozzo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Here's my take on the issue from 5 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32680201 Summary: We don't have safe roads and in most American suburbs traveling by car is often the only reasonable option available.

That seems like a very unrelated issue to someone being an investigated for letting their children do homework on the front lawn

It's a related cultural factor. The more we build our outdoor spaces to accommodate cars over people, the more notable it becomes when there are people in them.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#133

Post by gretch » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:50 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #72

gretch wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very false. National studies show more violent crime happens in poor areas: https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/hpnvv0812.pdf

You need to cite more specifically, I'm not reading the whole study looking for the bit you think was relevant to the other poster's point.

Okay don't do it. Instead you're just going to believe the guy who cited nothing? Live your life however you want I guess...

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#134

Post by MisterBastahrd » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:51 PM UTC

Gordonjcp wrote: post #73

America just seems like the weirdest fucking place. You're all going on about being the only truly free country in the world, but you can be jailed for letting your child play in your garden. What the fuck, guys?

We like our propaganda more than we like fixing ourselves, because propaganda is easier and cheaper.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#135

Post by evan_ » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:52 PM UTC

danjoredd wrote: post #100

kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

Its been a genuine problem. I have heard people actually say that if a kid is playing outside by themselves, then the parent should be charged with child neglect because the kid could get hurt. Any time a kid gets hurt on YouTube the comments are filled with people blaming the parent for not being outside with them. Thing is, playing outside by yourself gives you a strong sense of independence. The kid might get hurt…

> Any time a kid gets hurt on YouTube

Who's filming the kid getting hurt and putting it on youtube? Maybe that's what the comments are talking about...

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#136

Post by ackfoobar » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:52 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #113

acuozzo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Here's my take on the issue from 5 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32680201 Summary: We don't have safe roads and in most American suburbs traveling by car is often the only reasonable option available.

That seems like a very unrelated issue to someone being an investigated for letting their children do homework on the front lawn

car dependent development takes away children's independence ->

people are not used to seeing kids outside ->

they freak out when they see an unaccompanied child

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#137

Post by CalRobert » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:52 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #120

gitpusher wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related – this video does a nice job of articulating that argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHlpmxLTxpw

I didn't open it and I knew it was a NotJustBikes video. I actually hate that channel because it made me aware of how broken the car-centric infrastructure where I live is. I was living I such blissful ignorance, now I can't unsee it!

Depending on your circumstances you may be able to emigrate to the Netherlands.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#138

Post by Icathian » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:55 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #126

danjoredd wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its been a genuine problem. I have heard people actually say that if a kid is playing outside by themselves, then the parent should be charged with child neglect because the kid could get hurt. Any time a kid gets hurt on YouTube the comments are filled with people blaming the parent for not being outside with them. Thing is, playing outside by yourself gives you a strong sense of independence. The kid might get hurt…

Sure, a reasonable risk is tolerable. But, for instance, car-centric infrastructure has *intensely* exacerbated those risks: space is completely surrendered to cars, sidewalks are non-existent, crosswalks go across 8 lanes of 60+mph traffic. All of this, plus terrible public transport, makes it impossible to travel anyway except by car. This leads to lack of independence for children, and sedentarism.

This is hyperbole at best. There are entire swathes of the country, both rural and suburban, with plenty of safe places for kids to exist.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#139

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:55 PM UTC

gretch wrote: post #133

anigbrowl wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to cite more specifically, I'm not reading the whole study looking for the bit you think was relevant to the other poster's point.

Okay don't do it. Instead you're just going to believe the guy who cited nothing? Live your life however you want I guess...

I'm not going to believe either of you. What you offered was not responsive to his claim because it didn't address risks to children, which are the topic.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#140

Post by danjoredd » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 10:57 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #126

danjoredd wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its been a genuine problem. I have heard people actually say that if a kid is playing outside by themselves, then the parent should be charged with child neglect because the kid could get hurt. Any time a kid gets hurt on YouTube the comments are filled with people blaming the parent for not being outside with them. Thing is, playing outside by yourself gives you a strong sense of independence. The kid might get hurt…

Sure, a reasonable risk is tolerable. But, for instance, car-centric infrastructure has *intensely* exacerbated those risks: space is completely surrendered to cars, sidewalks are non-existent, crosswalks go across 8 lanes of 60+mph traffic. All of this, plus terrible public transport, makes it impossible to travel anyway except by car. This leads to lack of independence for children, and sedentarism.

It also depends on where you live. If you are a suburban or rural kid, playing outside all you want is fine. Let them explore the neighborhood. If you live near a highway though, or a high crime area, then you might want to reconsider what you want to allow. You still need common sense.

My main worry is people who live in relatively safe areas, like a suburban neighborhood, but with neighbors that will STILL call CPS on you for allowing them a little freedom. When I was a kid living in a trailer park we had neighbors like that. Never called CPS, but definitely complained about us being unsupervised despite the fact that the speed limit was a mere 15 MPH, and that we made a point not to bother the neighbors because our parents told us not to. They just saw kids playing and having fun, and decided it was a crime against humanity.