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KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

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Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#61

Post by crispinb »

Gigachad wrote: post #30
crispinb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That very incoherence is probably why it rarely works.

I completely know what you are talking about, I’m used to the Software app virtually never working, although I came back a few months ago and it all seemed to be working perfectly fine. So perhaps there have been some major improvements in this space. At any rate, the problem is not unsolvable, it was mostly just bad UX where underlying errors were not surfaced and the app would get stuck in an endless loading spinne…

> the problem is not unsolvable

Perfectly true, and my comment was the kind of irritated snark about imperfect open source software that I don't like hearing from other people! It just so happened that I had launched Software literally about 5 minutes previously for the first time in months and it .. sat there and did nothing.

I do think it's a good idea though, at least while we have this hopefully transitional period of multiple overlapping packaging/update systems. I get a bit tired of having to think in terms of flatpack and dnf and asdf and cargo and pnpm and .. not to mention all the odd bits and pieces I install & compile from source and forget to update.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#62

Post by alerighi »

Gigachad wrote: post #5
xen2xen1 wrote: post #4

$100,000 to build up a system that totally ignores the system package manager? Sounds great!

Good. The “system package manager” is good for updating the OS, it’s not good for packaging desktop applications, especially proprietary ones. If you use the gnome Software app, it merges flatpak, dnf, and the firmware updater in one “updates” page with a single button to update it all.

Having two ways to update the system doesn't either seem great to me. Having the same software that can be installed from two sources neither.

Also as far as I remember flatpack is something more complex than a simple package format, it has a runtime where each application runs in an isolated container where it can access only some of the resources (e.g. the filesystem). This adds to me useless complications to a system.

I think that the best approach to the integration of third party software is the one followed by ArchLinux, that is the AUR: a series of build instructions, maintained by the community, that allow you to package practically any piece of software that exists.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#63

Post by yamtaddle »

aaomidi wrote: post #46
cld8483 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu is an African word which means "Afraid of Debian" Seriously though, just install Debian. It's not hard, the netinstaller may be text-mode but it walks you through the simple steps one by one just like Ubuntu's GUI installer. Anybody who's comfortable using Ubuntu in the first place should be able to get through the Debian installer just fine.

If you’re using desktop, then honestly look into fedora or arch (EndeavourOS). I really am not sure why Ubuntu is still being used. I know it’s the main thing people recommend but it is awful for day to day desktop use due to its release cadence and holding packages back.

95% of "here's how to fix that braindead default that's giving you troule" or "here's what that misleading error message means and how to fix it" how-tos or whatever, for servers, are written either for Ubuntu or Red Hat (and friends) and sometimes the exact same steps won't work even on Debian. 3rd party commercial software often supports only Ubuntu or Red Hat, and you're on your own if you use it on something else. I've never liked RPM-based distros and specifically dislike Red Hat as a company, so, Ubuntu it is.

(For work, where I just want something that won't make me "the asshole who chose [non-standard thing]". I prefer Void or FreeBSD or, sometimes, Debian, for my own stuff)

[EDIT] Oh, right, specifically for desktop? Yeah, I'd go Void or Arch probably. Buuuuuut if it were for work, I'd just use Ubuntu, even on the desktop, so it wouldn't be my fault when it misbehaves.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#64

Post by metadat »

XorNot wrote: post #51
cld8483 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu is an African word which means "Afraid of Debian" Seriously though, just install Debian. It's not hard, the netinstaller may be text-mode but it walks you through the simple steps one by one just like Ubuntu's GUI installer. Anybody who's comfortable using Ubuntu in the first place should be able to get through the Debian installer just fine.

Ubuntu packages get updated on a much faster cadence then Debian in my experience.

Is this still true today? 15 years ago it was a different story, but nowadays I haven't noticed a difference in update cadence between the two.

Edit: I just checked for the classic case of latest Python (3.11), and the answer for Debian is to build from source, which is annoying (not difficult to compile, but then future updates can't be pulled in via apt). Does Debian not have a vibrant PPA community to fill the gaps like Ubuntu?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31643316

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#65

Post by mastazi »

mesebrec wrote: post #15
mastazi wrote: post #9

I'm an Ubuntu user and the first thing I always do in a new system is removing the Ubuntu Store, completely removing snapd, and installing the Flathub Store.

Honest question; why do you still use Ubuntu then? By now, Snap is such a fundamental part of Ubuntu that it begs the question whether Ubuntu is right for you if you want to avoid it. Why not use a derivative or upstream that makes different choices?

Honestly just inertia. Those are not servers (where you could easily migrate to another distro taking advantage of infra-as-code tools), they are a desktop and a HTPC. I have accumulated a lot of custom dotfiles, Ubuntu-specific utilities and scripts over time, not all of them would work in another distro unchanged.

Removing Snap is not that hard, the "hardest" part is making sure that Firefox is installed from the Mozilla PPA and even that takes just a moment once you have the script saved somewhere.

By the way I had a look at some Ubuntu derivatives like PopOS or Mint and I might take the plunge at some point.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#66

Post by jacooper »

themodelplumber wrote: post #32
Liquix wrote: post #27

Opinions on Flatpaks/snaps notwithstanding, it's encouraging to see KDE and GNOME collaborating on projects like this. IMO desktop GNU/Linux has benefited greatly from moving away from offering LXDE/LXQT/Mate/Enlightenment/Cinammon flavors and towards a more digestible subset (GNOME only, GNOME/KDE/XFCE, etc) of polished desktop environments. Pipe dream, but it would be incredible to see all of the passionate, talent…

I'd prefer to see more easily-communicated DE standards and published levels of adherence, rather than moving to the uni-desktop. Like if you want to select a desktop and are kind of new to desktop environments, maybe aim for the (imaginary example here) DE-5 level of standards-adherence. DE-4 and lower might suck in various ways even though they could have cool new features. There are way too many benefits from the…

I think that's what Freedesktop does, and why Flatpak heavily relies on XDG variables.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#67

Post by Octabrain »

I like Flatpak. I've even flatpaked some apps and made them available on Flathub. The only thing that dissapoints me is the fact that it integrates poorly with CLI apps.

Off topic: An idea that came to my mind a few days ago is that would have been great to add support for desktop apps to Podman by adding some extension or plugin capabilities to it instead of creating a new whole technology. Probably a silly idea though.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#68

Post by jacooper »

cld8483 wrote: post #35
mesebrec wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question; why do you still use Ubuntu then? By now, Snap is such a fundamental part of Ubuntu that it begs the question whether Ubuntu is right for you if you want to avoid it. Why not use a derivative or upstream that makes different choices?

Ubuntu is an African word which means "Afraid of Debian" Seriously though, just install Debian. It's not hard, the netinstaller may be text-mode but it walks you through the simple steps one by one just like Ubuntu's GUI installer. Anybody who's comfortable using Ubuntu in the first place should be able to get through the Debian installer just fine.

If you are using Ubuntu Pro(free or not) Debian isn't really an alternative. Also I am not sure if Debian is as fast as Canonical in patching CVEs.

I like Debian, but after (free)Ubuntu pro, it really became attractive for me as a small server operator, its even better than free RHEL.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#69

Post by cld8483 »

PlutoIsAPlanet wrote: post #58
cld8483 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AppImage is great, definitely the best of the bunch.

Said no one relevant AppImage solves the packaging problem in a bad way (ugh, loopback mounts), but does not solve the dependency problem, try run AppImages compiled for Ubuntu on Fedora..

> Said no one relevant

[Retort insult.]

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#70

Post by mastazi »

cld8483 wrote: post #35
mesebrec wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question; why do you still use Ubuntu then? By now, Snap is such a fundamental part of Ubuntu that it begs the question whether Ubuntu is right for you if you want to avoid it. Why not use a derivative or upstream that makes different choices?

Ubuntu is an African word which means "Afraid of Debian" Seriously though, just install Debian. It's not hard, the netinstaller may be text-mode but it walks you through the simple steps one by one just like Ubuntu's GUI installer. Anybody who's comfortable using Ubuntu in the first place should be able to get through the Debian installer just fine.

GP here. I use some tools that are Ubuntu specific. But I might look at Ubuntu derivatives such as Pop or Mint. As I said in my other comments, these are desktop/HTPC machines so, it's not as straight forward to change distro as it would be with a server.
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