Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub • Hacker News Board

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#211

Post by cxr » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 1:46 PM UTC

Dalewyn wrote: post #205

cxr wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The words "quote", "quotation", "mark", etc. do not appear anywhere within the HN Guidelines[1], to include any rules regarding quotation marks (there aren't any). No, but they do appear in the two links I gave—which describe the sort of behavior that HNers are expected to observe, regardless of whether it's written in a mod comment or on a mod-controlled page titled "Hacker News Guidelines". If you think that's an…

dang would do well to formally add those rules to the HN Guidelines page, then. It is patently unreasonable to expect unstated rules to be followed.

Surprise! That doesn't happen because then you get people showing up trying to litigate them.

PS: They're not unstated. I just linked to them; they can be read, ergo, they are stated.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#212

Post by lelanthran » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 1:47 PM UTC

richbell wrote: post #203

lelanthran wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Sorry, the rules clearly state that you can't browse websites that promote hacking or other criminal behaviour, like hackernews. It doesn't matter that HN isn't actually a criminal website, we must always unquestioningly follow rules." It's childish and immature, in a competition , to question the rules only after you have been caught breaking them. I never said rules should not be questioned, I said that you shou…

> It's childish and immature, in a competition, to question the rules only after you have been caught breaking them. How is it childish and immature? They were clearly following the spirit of the competition. Furthermore there is no indication anywhere, unless I missed it, that they were cognizant of that specific rule prior to the competition. Perhaps they saw "no template generators" and didn't pay attention to the…

> Even if they specifically knew that GitHub was mentioned, they could have reasonably assumed that the rule specifically referred to its tenplating features and that they were fine.

You cannot claim it's a reasonable interpretation when no other competitor, nor the person who wrote that rule, nor the person who adjudicated that rule ... thought that.

Sure, to you and me, we know what the intent must have been, but you cannot change the rules after the competition has ended because that is unfair to all the other competitors who abided by the rules.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#213

Post by richbell » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 1:49 PM UTC

justinclift wrote: post #10

Hmmm, the html files seem like the output of some form of generation, or perhaps a crappy web editor? eg: * https://github.com/thstsa/spacetourism/blob/main/technologie... * https://github.com/thstsa/spacetourism/blob/main/index.html * https://github.com/thstsa/spacetourism/blob/main/pricing.htm... Those multi-line blank gaps all over the place are not something that generally occur in hand crafted or "from scratch"…

> Those multi-line blank gaps all over the place are not something that generally occur in hand crafted or "from scratch" html.

Idk, that looks fairly standard to me. A lot of people like to space out their HTML so it's easier to read, myself included.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#214

Post by gabereiser » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 1:51 PM UTC

In the rules for the competition, there's this:

I. Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted. [1]

So the fact that you hosted it on Github disqualifies you. Regardless of whether you used their jekyll engine. I would immediately resubmit it from a shared hosting provider or by setting up an S3+CloudFront static site.

[1] https://tsaweb.org/docs/default-source/themes-and-problems-2...

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#215

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 1:53 PM UTC

kenneth wrote: post #67

bitwize wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Following the rules didn't help them. The rule was no templating tools that generate code. They didn't use that. It simply seems like they had to deal with a school official who was too dumb to know what GitHub was and too egotistical to admit they might be wrong. I actually dealt with something similar back in my high school days. I self-taught myself to program starting around age 10 or so. So by the time I was off…

Reminds me of my cryptography class in college. Before taking the class I had written a peer to peer encrypted messaging tool for fun and to learn about encryption. It had its own handshake, custom RSA, AES, ephemeral messages, tooling to discover peers...

Anyway in the last year of my CS degree I had a class on encryption, got barely a passing grade on the exam. One of the questions I remember was "What color is the lock in the address bar of Google Chrome that indicates a website is encrypted?", there were a bunch of others like that.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#216

Post by richbell » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

Dalewyn wrote: post #204

richbell wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is kind of irrelevant, because we don't know anything about the process that led to GitHub being included on the list. The inclusion of GitHub, as written, is clearly either a mistake or the product of ignorance. The students revealed that they spoke to the person who'd judged their submission, and that the judge doubled-double that they thought GitHub was a solely a temptation engine. > We were finally able to…

The inclusion of Github is not a mistake, because Github[1] cites Jekyll[2] (another named example) as a feature and provides features (web hosting and design tools) similar to another example named: Webs[3]. Would it be more prudent to list "Github Pages" as the named example instead of Github? Possibly, being more specific is never a bad thing. However, the organizers deemed it appropriate to just prohibit all of G…

> The inclusion of Github is not a mistake, because Github[1] cites Jekyll[2] (another named example) as a feature and provides features (web hosting and design tools) similar to another example named: Webs[3].

> Would it be more prudent to list "Github Pages" as the named example instead of Github?

It is a mistake because GitHub is first and foremost a platform for hosting code and collaborating. Jekyll is an optional feature in a tiny portion of GitHub's product catalog. Even if they specifically said "GitHub Pages" (which they didn't, so your argument is moot), that would still ignore the fact that Pages template generation. The page you link even references that you can use a generator but do not have to:

) Ready to get started? Build your own site from scratch or generate one for your project.

So better written rules would say "template generators like Wix or GitHub Pages using Jekyll are NOT permitted" Do you acknowledge how significantly that changes the interpretation of the rules and how poorly written they are in their current form?

‐--------

Edit: not to mention that the rule is explicitly in the context of template generation. Nowhere do they say "no GitHub (the VCS platform)" as you keep falsely claiming, the rules say "no GitHub (the temptation site)" which is a very different thing.

) H. Framework systems, such as Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress, Bootstrap, or other current technologies may be used; however, pre-built templates and themes for these sites are not permissible. If a framework system is used, a statement affirming that the template or theme used on the framework was built by the team must be posted on an “About” section or page.

) I. Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#217

Post by brk » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #164

alxlaz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These young people learned a very important lesson: Rules are rules are rules, and they must be followed, even if they don't make any sense. That is very obviously not the case, seeing how they literally followed the rules. This isn't a case of pointless rules being senselessly enforced, it's a case of a teacher erroneously enforcing a rule they did not understand in a case where it did not apply.

> That is very obviously not the case, seeing how they literally followed the rules. They followed the spirit of the rules rather than the letter, because Github was explicitly mentioned as one of the banned templating engines. Had they used an unlisted templating engine, they might have gotten away with it. Github obviously does not belong in that list, but to the busibodies at the contest, that's irrelevant.

Even if we assume that Github is a templating engine, you also have to recognize that it is also a content hosting platform. Hosting content on github does not in any way indicate that said content also came from github, or any other template package.

This is yet another example of "authorities" making tech rulings without even a basic understanding of the technology they are trying to ban/permit/legislate/tax/etc.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#218

Post by pixl97 » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:05 PM UTC

paulluuk wrote: post #103

Dalewyn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good that students learn this lesson now than later. Right now they get to learn these lessons with no skin off their backs. They're kids, most of the stuff they do is of no consequence one way or another. Once they enter the real world and the workforce, they get to learn these lessons with prices ranging from reprimands to terminations. Hardly a fun thing to go through.

People have been using this argument against me since I was a child: "this is good for you because the big bad world will crush you", but frankly I thought it was nonsense back then and I still do. The world is not filled with teacher-type people who will crush you for breaking rules. The world is filled with people who want to get things done, and know that the rules are only there to facilitate getting things done.…

I see someone doesn't actually have to follow any legal regulations in their line of work.

After your 12th hour straight in an IT call with a bank trying to fix a simple issue multiple compliance officers are on the call all fighting each other, you come to realize the nightmare teacher types do exist.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#219

Post by jame-se » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:08 PM UTC

I’m not sure why the non technical teacher is getting flak, as much as I hate to admit it, they were just following rules and avoiding future headaches.

Assuming they were super technical and didn’t disqualify the students, what would happen when other competitors call foul for using GitHub? Now this makes the approver look bad, but also could have unintended consequences in the competition.

Me, I would have told the kids to use Gitlab or one of the other non explicitly mentioned repositories, because sometimes, as silly as rules can be, need to be followed literally.

Re: Disqualified from a National Web Design Competition for Using GitHub

#220

Post by ubermonkey » Thu, Feb 23, 2023, 2:09 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #54

peterkelly wrote: post #28

This is one of those important events in life where you realise that sometimes those who hold seniority over you aren't necessarily as smart as you are. This experience will help you to cultivate a healthy disrespect for authority. We all go through something like this at some point. The best thing to do is to find some sort of constructive way to channel your experience. One path I would suggest is to consider launc…

[flagged]

Reflexive respect for authority is how we get authoritarianism. Your comment has been downvoted so much it's barely legible, and that's exactly the reception it deserves.