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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

591–600 of 689 posts

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#591
post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

Just curious, how has social media "eroded your wife's mental health"?

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people in Western societies don’t kill themselves because of wars or collective threats The dozens of French white teens who joined the war in Syria in 2015. The thousands of English teens who freely enrolled against Franco, the dictator who took over Spain in 1936, while they absolutely didn’t have to, as it was not part of the conscription? And if, once there, they deserted, they were legible for the death penalt…

Just as some young men ride motorcycles at 200mph or free climb cliffs, others travel around the world to join wars that have nothing to do with their family or community. I would be very cautious about ascribing noble motives to reckless death-seaking behavior like this.

And girls. There are examples of underage girls engaging in the 1936 Spain war, trying and succeeding to pass as teenage boys.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#593
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll do whatever it takes for my kids, and I can accept the consequences. I can assure you I've thought about it.

[flagged]

Since when did HN become a place for comments like this?

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want social media companies to have access to my ID You don't want them to know your real name and age? Then don't use them. Social media is harmful and so it needs more regulation and safety. You can't enter a casino right now without an ID. You either accept that the casino will know your name and age when you enter it or you don't go to the casino. It's so funny when tech folks think their little shitty…

> It's so funny when tech folks think their little shitty thing is something special that should not have to follow any logical common sense laws like everything else in the world. You clearly aren't going to take anything I say seriously with a response like that, so I'm not going to continue to engage. Besides, my main point was that there are good faith arguments to be had, including the one argument I made in my…

You didn’t provide an argument. “I don’t want to” is not a reason, I mean in theory that’s an argument to anything in life, but it’s not a good one, just a childish response.

> Remember, even websites like HN and Pornhub would need to verify your age with your ID.

That’s not true. How do you know what legislators would come up with? It’s perfectly possible to have Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and TikTok to have implement ID and age verification but not HN.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#595
post #365
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, social aspect of smoking was fairly usual reason to start smoking. Because, people are social animals. And like it or not, there was period when smoking meant making networking connections non-smokers did not had access to. The proposed solution has nothing in it for girls. It does not make their lives better. It is not helping them in any way, except proposing new gender based restrictions on them. Yes, yo…

Girls can play video games too :)

That has nothing to do with the point.

The people who play them awful lot and get addicted tend to be overwhelmingly boys. Typically people treat them more of as a boy toy then a girl toy.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Facebook has since been observed as having deleterious effects on mental health even before it was available to the public, and you'd be hard pressed to describe the Facebook of that period as a malicious company hijacking our emotions for profit. Nor is it clear that they reasonably could have known the effects it was having for quite some years (to be clear, they most certainly qualify as malicious now)

I guess I don't really care. Deep down we all know it's bad, and has been since its inception even if part of that knowledge is in hindsight. I would venture to guess that Zuck knows this too, which is part of the reason he's so strongly pivoting to VR. It's frustrating, because every time this comes up we have these long, expansive threads about what social media is or isn't 100% responsible for (as if the standard…

"Deep down we all know it's bad"

Really? I have never felt that way about social media (esp. Fb), it's only the studies demonstrating the harmful effects that have convinced me that, at least in their current incarnations, at a population level the cons of social media outweigh the pros. That there's still no good alternative to FB for taking advantage of its "pros" is my biggest concern.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#597
post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

Don't be afraid to be the bad guy. Sometimes, as a parent, that is exactly your job. My child will not have social media for as long as she lives in this house.

The interesting thing to me was her reaction, which actually may mirror yours based on your writing. She said she had no interest in Facebook, because she sees how much time mom wastes on it and doesn't like how she acts.

That was before our come to jesus moment as husband and wife... which I also highly recommend. But you'll have to be the bad guy again.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#598
I gave my nephews "air-gapped" laptops (old ThinkPad t430s). Technically they're connected to the internet, but the hosts file blocks so much that even if they could figure out how to get past the locked down KDE desktop, find a terminal, install a browser and open it, they still wouldn't be able to access anything. I downloaded block lists for ads and porn, and manually added social media sites. However... They can still join my xonotic server and play against each other. They have a bunch of games that work on LAN (one creates a server, the others join). This includes Minetest, which they find indistinguishable from Minecraft. So they've completely stopped pestering their parents to buy them consoles and phones that are "forcibly online". I suppose they're lucky that there's three of them to play together. Lone kids couldn't do this with their friends without multiple families getting together and sorting it out.

I'm going to follow this up with cheap phones that I can lock down. I'll add a bunch of hand-picked games and maybe set up a slack account and get their friends to join. Then disable the play store. Again, this will shut them up for a while and let them have access to technology without the brain-rot. And their parents will be in slack, so they'll be able to keep tabs on them. (I don't have kids, so I have the spare time and the inclination to do this, unlike their dad)

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#599

Social media is a psychological weapon that leaves no physical evidence which is why the state is making a big play on mental health. Its a control mechanism on the population because the state deliberately doesn't teach law and parents cant be relied upon, so social media can also be a way to psychological and biologically profile people before choosing to radicalise individuals, set them up for blackmail, or have t…

Are you just trying to fuck up my youtube account or what?

Make your point without the nonsense.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think it would be dubious for a society to value men and women equally?

Men and women are not identical; inescapably, the mean value contributed by each will material differ in at least some contexts. If a society equally values the contributions of men and women in all contexts, then, by definition, it must be using an inequitable metric to ascribe value to their contributions.

No, it would mean not attributing innate value to maleness or femaleness, so to speak,, but to the relevant metrics.

One can still compute a mean afterward and potentially find that it differs, but that is no judgment of inherent value / not a causative factor for the value judgment being made.

And even then, there might sometimes be benefit to treating people more equally than they are on some metrics. Maximizing efficiency often means sacrificing resiliency, after all.

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