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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#511

Post by anigbrowl »

fleddr wrote: post #482
anigbrowl wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at it in isolation because you are not privy to the kids' social circle. What the gp is describing is a social cost imposed on the non-participant kid. If repeated often, this will lower their status within their social circle and (much like chickens) the least popular kids become the default target for emotional abuse and bullying. If they withdraw form their social circle to cut their losses, then th…

I get what you're saying but we shouldn't escalate this into a type of prison gang situation, there's significant middle ground. When the research is becoming clear that these dynamics and these years of a teen life cause so much harm, we can't be so fatalistic to say that giving in is mandatory.

Oh, I'm certainly not suggesting just giving in to it. But in contrast to the person I replied to, I think we should take teens' perspectives on their social cliques seriously, because even though the cliques don't have importance in society, they have impacts on those within, and our understanding of how cliques operate is surprisingly under-appreciated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zachary's_karate_club

Now combine the natural fact of cliques and fissures in small groups with the amplification/reinforcement effects that social media provides, and you can see the potential for acceleration/intensification of social stresses during formative years - like Mean Girls but potentially spread across the entire internet, or at least similar cohorts.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#513

Post by pixl97 »

at_a_remove wrote: post #469
Zetice wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's on the men to adjust, and that's what we see in most men overall. The ones who struggle to find relationships are the men who aren't adjusting. We should figure out why they're not adjusting, not ask the women to give back some of their hard-earned freedoms because some men can't handle it. The inversion would be if the claim was that a trait of men is causing this maladjustment, but the claim is inste…

Women can't all "marry up" unless you systematically disadvantage all women, such that for F1, there is a M1 who is of higher whatever (status, income, looks), and so on for F2 and M2, F3 and M3, and so on. Given the stats on enrollment in colleges, on who is preferred for tenure track in academia, and so on and so forth, well ... that's just not gonna work out.

This is not a binary decision, there is a third choice of not marrying at all.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#514

Post by monetus »

josephg wrote: post #414
giraffe_lady wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

uhhhhh I don't think the video games are the reason but boys shooting up schools did turn out to be a big problem you know. So, idk, they were probably worried about the wrong thing but it seems they were right to be worried about that outcome.

Sure - and as an Australian I find America’s tolerance for school shootings utterly baffling. Here in Australia we play all the same video games as American kids do, and we don’t have school shootings. The problem isn’t the video games.

> tolerance for school shootings utterly baffling.

I hang out with fewer gun owners than many but I am from Tennessee. It is kind of like getting people to recognize the need to do something about climate change. Most everyone recognizes it as a problem now, but solutions are someone else's business. "The ability to affect the problem is upstream, what am I going to do about it? What am I supposed to do about schools, sell my gun and be without it when something crazy happens?" That is even before addressing that they can be fun, like a collectible or a sport.

The ideas tossed around are often regulations at the consumer level, and the societal momentum is thoroughly against those in general.

If an uncharacteristic law was introduced along the lines of, "no more new guns" then some in my area would begin manufacturing themselves. I already see cardboard signs advertising squirrel rifles.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#515

Post by [deleted] »

moremetadata wrote: post #116

Social media is a psychological weapon that leaves no physical evidence which is why the state is making a big play on mental health. Its a control mechanism on the population because the state deliberately doesn't teach law and parents cant be relied upon, so social media can also be a way to psychological and biologically profile people before choosing to radicalise individuals, set them up for blackmail, or have t…

[deleted]

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#516

Post by fleddr »

Zetice wrote: post #390
marcellus23 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit disappointing seeing the implicit bias in that article. The thrust seems to basically be "women are fine, men are failing and need to do better". Some choice quotes: > Women are tiring of their stereotypical role as full-time therapist for emotionally distant men > “Today in America, women expect more from men,” Levant said, “and unfortunately, so many men don’t have more to give.” > The same emotional deficits…

Of course it's on the men to adjust, and that's what we see in most men overall. The ones who struggle to find relationships are the men who aren't adjusting. We should figure out why they're not adjusting, not ask the women to give back some of their hard-earned freedoms because some men can't handle it. The inversion would be if the claim was that a trait of men is causing this maladjustment, but the claim is inste…

It's amazing how easily you skim over the behavior that women don't marry down.

It's always been a selfish behavior void of love, but I suppose that one can find rationalization in needing stability and protection if one is to start a family.

Now, however, as women match earnings or even out-earn the typical guy, they still won't marry down. Which creates selection criteria of an "impossible man". Acceptably attractive, stable high earner, emotionally advanced (yeah, right).

Meanwhile, men do marry down. And none have an ever increasing list of demands. Just noticing the asymmetry here.

Anyway, men won't emotionally "improve" because that is a strictly female value assessment. We're not broken, we're just different. My girlfriend gives me a daily update of all the ups and downs and gossips in her dealing with colleagues at work. I do not give a shit about any of it, but will pretend to care.

Neither of us are broken, we're different. And that is fine.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#517

Post by bart_spoon »

autoexec wrote: post #164
samstave wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the Father of Three girls ; I propose a screen-age limit. Just like the drinking limit, and I think that certain sites should have a limit of 10 years old. Only educational sites and videos should be available to anyone under 10. I KNOW this is a horrendously hard problem to solve - but kids should EARN sceen time by 'playing outside time' or something. Kids born to cities are fucked. kids born to dense 'no-nature…

> Only educational sites and videos should be available to anyone under 10. I don't think you could enforce this anyway, but it's also a terrible idea. I can't imagine what my life would have been like if my local library or bookseller felt like you do about the internet and I was trapped reading fiction way below by level. The solution to the problem isn't censorship and holding inquisitive children back, it's paren…

This assumes that children are “held back” by not having unlimited access to screens. It also equates books with the internet which is absurd.

Social media, and the internet as we know it, have only been a part of children’s lives for about 15 years, less than a single generation. The idea that it is now an indispensable part of their development, and that depriving them of it is going to harm them us utterly ridiculous. As if every generation before now consists of drooling ape-men that could have been what this current generation of apparent Uber-children will become if only they too had access to TikTok and YouTube.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#518

Post by fleddr »

nsfmc wrote: post #407
eastbound wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by finding other ways to be valued as human beings. Before absconding boys from harm, maybe we should check twice on their health. They are often forgotten or their difficulties brushed off in studies. How are addictions progressing? Obesity maybe? Why are they all on 9Gag? Let’s check their level of racism and misogyny, it might be a pro…

an earlier newsletter shows this distressing graph of teen suicides and, shocker, boys are doing terribly, a suicide rate at least three times more than girls, but the author seems to find the 34% delta less distressing. the data is unsettling, but the author doesn't remotely confront the question about why 2017 is a post-2010 maxima for both boys and girls. (which would probably change the boys delta to at least 60…

Recently an organization representing war news reporters was distressed by the rise in female reporters getting killed, 6 more than the year before.

The fact that 85% of killed reporters were men...ah, well.

Men are not doing alright. And our response to it is nothing at all or...do better.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#520

Post by ShredKazoo »

>Each girl might be worse off quitting Instagram even though all girls would be better off if everyone quit.

What's the solution then? Maybe we need some sort of "device-free summer camp" where teens just have fun with other teens in nature, without any devices to distract them?

I'll bet this could be a profitable business at least...

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