Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 689 posts

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#441

Post by nostromo »

belorn wrote: post #405
lsy wrote: post #185

I think it's somewhat important to ask why this effect is more observable for girls than for boys, and Haidt does not seem to really reflect on that. Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by fi…

It is a very interesting aspect of all this kind of discussion that when any problem exist for girls and women, the problem is described as being caused by an external force. When ever a problem exist for boys and men, the problem is described as an internal force within the boys and men themselves. As long I have seen those topics on HN it never fails to display this cultural view about men and women. Men not gradua…

And it’s extremely patronizing to women and girls. It takes away their agency and centers their choices back onto men and society.

By contrast, if a man spends too much time playing video games, he’s seen as lacking discipline (something within his control), not as a victim of society or corporations (something outside of his control).

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#442

Post by monetus »

tempestn wrote: post #364
friendlyHornet wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I was the WORST when I was in 9th grade. I really don't envy my parents for having to deal with that version of me, and I did so much stuff I regret. My self-esteem back then was hair-thin; I use to obsess about EVERYTHING, from what I say, to how I talk, to how I smell, to how I walk, to the music I listen to, etc

Any advice for parents of a kid going through a similar period?

Get a sense of how hierarchical their view of their peers is - and, if they are open enough, how they think about themselves in that picture. If they dont have all the expensive jackets and shoes, unpack how that affects their interactions. Have they even been in a distinctly expensive house, or a poor household? Ask if they know anyone on sports teams, or anyone in the art department, those who were homeschooled, are highly religious, etc. - try to get a sense of where they have gravitated and where they have animus. Do they view social butterflies that go between cliques as inauthentic? What happens when they see the odd-ones-out get made fun of? Careful there especially, but that is kind of the crux of it all. Treat it all like it was your career and you were angling for a promotion or to not be fired, but are pulling your hair out from stress and imposter syndrome.

Just do all you can to get ahead of the idea that they are in a concrete hierarchy, because make no mistake, they are in a hierarchy. Maybe even talk a bit about guanxi, and how people that freak them out now, will change a lot.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#443

Post by Aloha »

Ergo19 wrote: post #424
Aloha wrote: post #20

I have a generalized view of social media - Humanity has not yet evolved adequate social and cultural defenses for the ability for every Tom, Dick and Harry sitting on their sofa to reach an audience of millions in real time. One the rumor mill went from days or weeks to real time, once the ability to present a.. diorama of life to a large online audience became commonplace - it in my opinion breaks a bunch of cultur…

Yes, the rate of cultural adaptation is challenged by the rate of technological progress. I feel like we haven't even settled the basic question of smartphone etiquette.

I dont think we have, yeah - it took about 50 years to settle on just telephone etiquette - and thats not completely settled.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#444

Post by sidfthec »

dustedcodes wrote: post #355
sidfthec wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there are good faith arguments, you probably just don't agree with them. The most convincing argument is that I don't want social media companies to have access to my ID. Remember, even websites like HN and Pornhub would need to verify your age with your ID.

> I don't want social media companies to have access to my ID You don't want them to know your real name and age? Then don't use them. Social media is harmful and so it needs more regulation and safety. You can't enter a casino right now without an ID. You either accept that the casino will know your name and age when you enter it or you don't go to the casino. It's so funny when tech folks think their little shitty…

> It's so funny when tech folks think their little shitty thing is something special that should not have to follow any logical common sense laws like everything else in the world.

You clearly aren't going to take anything I say seriously with a response like that, so I'm not going to continue to engage.

Besides, my main point was that there are good faith arguments to be had, including the one argument I made in my original post. I hope you can see now that good faith arguments exist.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#445

Post by GuB-42 »

keyme wrote: post #436

I think we're around the point in time where it would be reasonable to establish a kind of "nature preserve" for people who collectively want to reject most of the post 2005 (or so) technology. I want my car to have no ECU with an always on LTE backdoor I want my streets to be free of facial recognition CCTV cameras I want it to be normal to use physical cash for payments again Mostly I only want tech that people use…

So, like the Amish, but less extreme.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#446

Post by jimt1234 »

vlunkr wrote: post #244
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oh my god, did you see what Stacy posted last night!" But your daughter missed it because " you didn't let her have an Instagram account!" It seems to me that such worries are well-founded. At best, she made the decision herself and still feels the pain of it.

Then they get to blame the parent. "I want to use social media but my lame parents won't let me." Then they're left out of some things, but they get to deflect that social stigma. I'm willing to accept being the lame parent. That ship sailed a long time ago.

The "lame parent" is so much better than the "cool parent". I've got plenty of "cool parent" friends, and they all have one thing in common: their kids are assholes.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#448

Post by warner25 »

neogodless wrote: post #40
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

Disclaimer: Not a parent, did not grow up during the era of social media (and my own childhood experiences cannot be extrapolated!) As a kid, I was bullied, outcast, left out. Oddly enough, I don't think I was depressed. Sure, I was sad sometimes. But given that my options didn't include doing things with kids from school, I did things on my own. Fortunately for me, I also had access to a (relatively) safe outdoors t…

This is an interesting thought. It sounds like your childhood was similar to mine. A big turning point in my life was finally realizing or accepting, at 15 or 16 years old, that it was OK to not be popular or be part of a big group of friends. It was OK to have just a few close relationships. It was OK to sit quietly by myself in the cafeteria during lunch and do my homework if my few friends didn't have the same lunch period. Ironically, I started to have more conventional social success after that, in addition to doing much better academically after a rough freshman and sophomore year of high school.

I've shared that advice with younger people, but not my own kids yet. I don't know if it helped, or if you can really teach that.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#449

Post by otoburb »

yamtaddle wrote: post #242
stuart78 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my kid's school the target is no phones until 8th grade. It seems many people adhere to the guidance, but that is only based on what we see casually, and we'll see how it looks over the next few years. Some 3rd/4th graders have smart watches which allow comms but not meaningful apps. Not sure it is a great compromise for my family, but interesting to see what results other folks find as we all navigate it.

> At my kid's school the target is no phones until 8th grade. Public or private? I've got a lot of insight into local school districts in my area and a little into local private schools (good ones—not poor-quality evangelical schools for parents who don't want their kids taught about evolution, or something like that) and the public schools have all completely given up on policing phones and wouldn't dare suggest tha…

In my kids’ public schools (one ends at grade 5, the other at grade 8), electronic devices found during the school day are confiscated.

Not sure about other public schools in our area, but I suspect this type of enforcement is only possible if the majority of families are on board.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#450

Post by lieut_data »

dmonitor wrote: post #45
barbazoo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be frustrating to see this problem approaching and not knowing what to do. I wonder if at some point the only way out is to radically change one's family's lifestyle. Maybe homeschooling, very limited technology at home, living in a community with like-minded people, something like that?

this model breaks down because you have to enter society eventually. transitioning from homeschooling to highschool junior year and then into a large university was very difficult in my personal experience.

My own experience of transitioning from homeschooling throughout high school to a university degree in Mathematics/CS with honours was quite positive. I arrived at university with the personal drive to direct my own education and the wherewithal to orchestrate my own finances.

Admittedly, I was somewhat socially awkward until I met my wife, but it’s not clear that the social pressures of public school would have improved this. My interest in computers made me an outlier everywhere I went.

Homeschooling doesn’t have to mean social isolation. My own grade school children are confident speaking to senior citizens, adults, teens and other children alike, because they regularly socialize across their age groups. Being surrounded by people roughly your own age in school is an artificial construct that mostly doesn’t repeat thereafter.

Post reply on HN