Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls • Hacker News Board

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#241

Post by stuckinhell » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 9:29 PM UTC

colonCapitalDee wrote: post #217

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #9

I wonder if online dating tends to lead to similar impacts to mental health for some groups of people as social media does to teen girls. Just like in Haidt's examples, it's impersonal, phone-based, leading to constant social comparison, feelings of rejection, ostracism and ghosting. I wouldn't be shocked if a few years from now research came out showing that it has similar effects to adults, but they're just better…

I tried Tinder (and Hinge) as an average looking guy and found it to be dehumanizing. I rarely got matches, the matches I got usually didn't respond to my messages, and even when they did I could tell they weren't invested in the interaction. I've got a great job, a decent face, I work out, I've got friends, family, hobbies, and passions. I genuinely like myself; I'm satisfied with my life and my personal development…

Sounds like article is correct than. https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo...

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#242

Post by yamtaddle » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 9:29 PM UTC

stuart78 wrote: post #212

austinl wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once sat next to a dean of private school on a plane—she mentioned that the ~100 parents that sent their children to the school signed an agreement that they would restrict their children's access to social media until 9th grade. I have no idea how well it was adhered to or enforced, but it surprised me that the parents of the school and the dean were trying to collectively organize action around this issue to prev…

At my kid's school the target is no phones until 8th grade. It seems many people adhere to the guidance, but that is only based on what we see casually, and we'll see how it looks over the next few years. Some 3rd/4th graders have smart watches which allow comms but not meaningful apps. Not sure it is a great compromise for my family, but interesting to see what results other folks find as we all navigate it.

> At my kid's school the target is no phones until 8th grade.

Public or private?

I've got a lot of insight into local school districts in my area and a little into local private schools (good ones—not poor-quality evangelical schools for parents who don't want their kids taught about evolution, or something like that) and the public schools have all completely given up on policing phones and wouldn't dare suggest that parents ought not be giving their 3rd graders smartphones, while the private schools both police them more heavily and seem to serve way fewer families inclined to give preteens a smartphone to begin with.

Feels like the beginning of an even-greater class divide in education, to me.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#243

Post by metalliqaz » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 9:29 PM UTC

theGnuMe wrote: post #86

metalliqaz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. It have no idea what I'm going to do about it.

So we know that social media causes depression and anxiety and we know that kids will want to be on social media so we have to teach them the skills to regulate their emotions. Most importantly that they can identify when they need to ask for help and will ask for it. We need to normalize asking for help. Right now kids can learn these skills in therapy but that is not the only place those skills should be taught or…

I don't even have the skills to regulate my emotions

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#244

Post by vlunkr » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 9:29 PM UTC

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #13

mixmastamyk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s ok for a 12yo to be out of the loop for a few hours. They see their friends every day at school.

"Oh my god, did you see what Stacy posted last night!" But your daughter missed it because " you didn't let her have an Instagram account!" It seems to me that such worries are well-founded. At best, she made the decision herself and still feels the pain of it.

Then they get to blame the parent. "I want to use social media but my lame parents won't let me." Then they're left out of some things, but they get to deflect that social stigma. I'm willing to accept being the lame parent. That ship sailed a long time ago.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#245

Post by Zetice » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 9:30 PM UTC

stuckinhell wrote: post #232

chmod775 wrote: post #224

> Boys are doing badly too, but their rates of depression and anxiety are not as high, and their increases since 2011 are smaller. Bullshit. These numbers are self reported and show exactly the opposite of reality. Boys aged 15-24 are about four times [0] more likely than girls to die by their own hands, so clearly relying on self reported cases of mental illness is not very helpful and is likely to shift focus away…

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#246

Post by andix » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 9:30 PM UTC

mrpopo wrote: post #87

I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion, but the dismissal of other factors is insufficient: > Why did a measure of loneliness at school go up around the world only after 2012, as the global economy got better and better? The economy didn't get better for everyone, in fact inequality rose starkly; this might be a correlating factor. > It’s not because of the 9/11 attacks, wars in the middle east, or school s…

I would argue, that the economical situation is not very influential on kids and teenagers. Having friends and hanging out with them, is much more important. Kids don’t need a lot. As long as they have food, clothes, a place to sleep and go to school, it should be okay-ish. They don’t need to go to the cinema to have fun, they can just meet up in a park or play soccer/basketball to have a good time.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#247

Post by stuckinhell » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 9:30 PM UTC

dokem wrote: post #114

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #9

I wonder if online dating tends to lead to similar impacts to mental health for some groups of people as social media does to teen girls. Just like in Haidt's examples, it's impersonal, phone-based, leading to constant social comparison, feelings of rejection, ostracism and ghosting. I wouldn't be shocked if a few years from now research came out showing that it has similar effects to adults, but they're just better…

I think I have given up on dating apps for the most part. I live close to the red light district in my popular city and force myself to go out at least once a week by myself if I don't have anything else going on. Almost every time I will meet a nice girl or interesting person. It might not always be worth getting a number or hooking up but it's still fun and boosts self esteem and will also shows me that my worth is…

You have to have money to go out. The younger generations are poorer than ever.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#248

Post by faeriechangling » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 9:30 PM UTC

eastbound wrote: post #203

lsy wrote: post #185

I think it's somewhat important to ask why this effect is more observable for girls than for boys, and Haidt does not seem to really reflect on that. Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by fi…

> Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by finding other ways to be valued as human beings. Before absconding boys from harm, maybe we should check twice on their health. They are often forgotten or their difficulties brushed off in studies. How are addictions progressing? Obesity maybe? Why are they all on 9Gag? Let’s check their level of racism and misogyny, it might be a pro…

>misogyny, it might be a proxy for self-esteem

Seems to me misandry would be a better proxy for self-esteem. I do know men who are very much misandrist. I'm not just talking about them "going woke" I'm talking about kids whose fathers abandoned them or whatever and they feel a lot of resentment when they look around and see this is a common story. As men collectively become more productive, more empathetic, less toxic, and all this stuff I only hear more and more people pleading that we ratchet up scrutiny of men to the point Gilette think's it's a good idea to run an ad directed by women about how men need to do better and do this and that wrong and just need to get their shit together [1].

Similarly, I would say that self-hating racism is a better proxy for self-esteem than racism in general. In fact this shit is out of control in Incel communities to the point they have terms like "currycels", "ricecels", etc. You know why they feel this way? Is it because they themselves are racist towards towards others? No it's generally because they look at dating site stats and see how women are racist towards them (in a highly specific context) and internalise the racism of others and hate themselves. Oddly I don't think I've EVER heard somebody suggest that women should be less racist towards men to improve men's self-esteem, even though I've seen such racism CRUSH men's self-esteem over and over.

I don't know I see the idea that the key towards self-esteem is holding people other than yourself in high esteem and think they're totally absurd on its face. If an Indian Man or Black Man or White Man or Asian Man doesn't like people like themselves, if they don't look up to proud Malcolm X like role models, their self-esteem is always going to be shit. Men are generally portrayed as either oppressor or oppressed, either way they have cause to feel bad about themselves.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYaY2Kb_PKI

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#249

Post by somethoughts » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

jrumbut wrote: post #177

andrewflnr wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much for the "play based childhood", then. (And no, of course assigned sports don't count)

In another thread I mentioned the need for organized (in the sense of same place, same time) unstructured activity. Gather at the basketball court, if practice or a game break out that's good, if not that's OK. It seems like everyone wins in that scenario, it's healthy but playful and low stress while accommodating parents' need for scheduling. Is such a thing common? I don't hear about it much.

Agree, its unfortunate that most of the after school sports program start getting to be like prepping for professional/collegiate level sports once they reach high school.

Middle school sports and junior varsity high school sports coupled with math tutoring is probably enough to keep them busy enough and out of trouble/off social media.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#250

Post by officeplant » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

dymk wrote: post #73

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Amish kinda slap, they didn't invent addictive social media, put a game show host in charge of nuclear weapons, or have a bunch of corporations change their icons to rainbow icons while still being shitty. They literally realized 300 years ago that they should opt out of the nonsense America descended into

What’s the term for a weeaboo but for the Amish?

Protestants