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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#421

Post by MadSudaca »

ravenstine wrote: post #369
beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...that many people would find offensive. It's a lost cause to suggest that corporations implicitly understand something innate about female psychology... You are wrong. Feminism as a broad social movement, and as an academic discipline, explicitly sought to question and attack the social structures and behaviors that were often insisted to be "innate" about female psychology and well being. Basically no one would…

You're proving my point whether you realize it or not.

In fact, it would have been hard to provide a better proof of your point!

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#422

Post by nitwit005 »

ThalesX wrote: post #411
Spivak wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Every girl goes through that, they're called your formative years for a reason. The start of HS is basically a reset where you go from chasing whatever fancy catches your attention shamelessly-ish to consciously developing an identity filtered through the social pressures of wanting to fit in. It starts to wane around 17 when we start feeling confident enough to be ourselves, but o…

I like how people respond as if I haven't gone through high school, or am aware of the typical changes that are associated with that period, in boys and girls. I'm also not saying she's not going to be fine. I'm just shocked at the impact of social media on their experiences and have concluded that it's impossible to resist. They'll all fall in the bell curve so of course they'll be alright, but they'll be alright in…

I'm sure people know you went through high school yourself, but plenty of people seem to completely forget what it's like to be a young person.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#423

Post by MandieD »

colonCapitalDee wrote: post #217
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #9

I wonder if online dating tends to lead to similar impacts to mental health for some groups of people as social media does to teen girls. Just like in Haidt's examples, it's impersonal, phone-based, leading to constant social comparison, feelings of rejection, ostracism and ghosting. I wouldn't be shocked if a few years from now research came out showing that it has similar effects to adults, but they're just better…

I tried Tinder (and Hinge) as an average looking guy and found it to be dehumanizing. I rarely got matches, the matches I got usually didn't respond to my messages, and even when they did I could tell they weren't invested in the interaction. I've got a great job, a decent face, I work out, I've got friends, family, hobbies, and passions. I genuinely like myself; I'm satisfied with my life and my personal development…

Cheer up - I met the man I married via the Yahoo personals (now that shows my age!) when he was 32, and was his first serious girlfriend.

Just keep enjoying and putting effort into your work, family, friends and hobbies, and you’ll be a more attractive potential partner at 30 than the guys who mostly have their looks to offer.

And maybe try learning how to knit.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#424

Post by Ergo19 »

Aloha wrote: post #20

I have a generalized view of social media - Humanity has not yet evolved adequate social and cultural defenses for the ability for every Tom, Dick and Harry sitting on their sofa to reach an audience of millions in real time. One the rumor mill went from days or weeks to real time, once the ability to present a.. diorama of life to a large online audience became commonplace - it in my opinion breaks a bunch of cultur…

Yes, the rate of cultural adaptation is challenged by the rate of technological progress. I feel like we haven't even settled the basic question of smartphone etiquette.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#425

Post by NoPicklez »

bazmattaz wrote: post #362
ThalesX wrote: post #99

My little sister just started high school and in less than a semester is unrecognizable. There is no more her in her day to day life, everything is curated to perfection. There are no more hobbies, no more interestes, no more curiosities, there is just "me". I was so confident in her ability to withstand the impact of social media, due to her education, but ultimately I was just shocked at how fast the change was. I…

> I now no longer believe the human brain is capable of withstanding its effects. 100% agree. I don’t think any brain born after the social media age can resist getting hooked on it. For those of us born before the dawn of the internet maybe some of us don’t get the appeal.

Not when I know 50 year olds who "Couldn't understand how us young people were on our phones so much" were given and iPad and now they're hooked on it.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#426

Post by anigbrowl »

lsy wrote: post #185

I think it's somewhat important to ask why this effect is more observable for girls than for boys, and Haidt does not seem to really reflect on that. Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by fi…

Reading between the lines of his body of work, it appears Haidt wants to return to a type of mid-century traditionalism, where children and young people are both protected and challenged by traditional adult authority figures (who are conveniently mostly people like him and his collaborators)

You raise a lot of worthwhile questions. It's certainly possible this piece isn't written in good faith, or that Haidt has become fixated on a particular theory and gone into some confirmation bias spiral. This might be part of a broader push to rein in 'big tech'. I know little to nothing about him as an individual, and have doubts about his theory here, but submitted it because it seems to have the position and traction required to become a political football with longer-term ramifications.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#427

Post by josephg »

trieste92 wrote: post #340
lsy wrote: post #185

I think it's somewhat important to ask why this effect is more observable for girls than for boys, and Haidt does not seem to really reflect on that. Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by fi…

> Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by finding other ways to be valued as human beings. Sounds like one of those truisms that people love to repeat. Like all other instances, this one likel…

I just think the gender norms for men are different. Traditionally, women are valued more for their beauty and (later) their capacity to raise children. Men are traditionally valued for their capacity to be bread winners. “Women are valued for what they are. Men are valued for what they do.”

I think both ideas can be pretty toxic to their respective genders. The problems just show up differently. Social media, online bullying and body shaming hurt girls more than boys. And video game addiction, desperation due to purposelessness and suicide seem to hurt men more than women.

Every human deserves to have a life in which they flourish. We should, as much as we can, work to tackle all of these problems.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#428

Post by [deleted] »

tayo42 wrote: post #80
AussieWog93 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, but dating apps sure helped crush the self-esteem of my sister. She still gets on them occasionally, because there's no alternative now. Guys in the post-#metoo era just won't approach a girl at a bar the way they used to.

Bars were always terrible for meeting people. Idk anyone having success there. If it did work, I don't think apps would have taken off

[deleted]

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#429

Post by NoPicklez »

ThalesX wrote: post #411
Spivak wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Every girl goes through that, they're called your formative years for a reason. The start of HS is basically a reset where you go from chasing whatever fancy catches your attention shamelessly-ish to consciously developing an identity filtered through the social pressures of wanting to fit in. It starts to wane around 17 when we start feeling confident enough to be ourselves, but o…

I like how people respond as if I haven't gone through high school, or am aware of the typical changes that are associated with that period, in boys and girls. I'm also not saying she's not going to be fine. I'm just shocked at the impact of social media on their experiences and have concluded that it's impossible to resist. They'll all fall in the bell curve so of course they'll be alright, but they'll be alright in…

I think it's because in your post you don't acknowledge any of the typical changes that are associated with that period.

Your post seemed quite helpless.

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