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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#401

Post by ThalesX »

AlexandrB wrote: post #187
ThalesX wrote: post #99

My little sister just started high school and in less than a semester is unrecognizable. There is no more her in her day to day life, everything is curated to perfection. There are no more hobbies, no more interestes, no more curiosities, there is just "me". I was so confident in her ability to withstand the impact of social media, due to her education, but ultimately I was just shocked at how fast the change was. I…

I think it's important to remember that high school is a critical time where a lot of people shift focus to their friend groups and their own reputation therein. Social Media changes the terrain, but the game is not that different. I remember back to my own high school experience and how my range of activities narrowed dramatically and there was a lot more focus on who's dating whom and what the cool kids are up to.…

I also remember my high school times, it was at the bridge between the analog and the digital and it's a completely different playing field. I understand where you are coming from, but I am very close to my sister and what they are experiencing does not compare to what traditional high school coming of age scenarios had.

You mention who is dating whom and what the cool kids are up to. Imagine what the global reach and competition do to this particular interest.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#402

Post by moremetadata »

rglover wrote: post #251
moremetadata wrote: post #116

Social media is a psychological weapon that leaves no physical evidence which is why the state is making a big play on mental health. Its a control mechanism on the population because the state deliberately doesn't teach law and parents cant be relied upon, so social media can also be a way to psychological and biologically profile people before choosing to radicalise individuals, set them up for blackmail, or have t…

> Social media is a psychological weapon that leaves no physical evidence which is why the state is making a big play on mental health. Bingo. The entire thing is a psyop designed to artificially limit and homogenize groups to make them more predictable and easier to control.

I think its an extension of the divide and conquer mentality that has existed since Roman times.

Govts are always looking to control the population, especially the military, police and media but it starts in the classroom with not running in the corridors, being made to sit for extended periods of time which makes it a stress position in some military circles.

Just look at the rivalry or disputes between different geographic regions like Europe or the Balkans, some disputes have gone of for so many generations that nobody knows what the original dispute is for.

So when you say its a psyop, yes I would say social media is, but its been hijacked by everyone and anyone. Take the Angry Karen meme, https://www.reddit.com/r/AngryKaren/

I heard this was a business interests invention to reduce the number of items women return for exchange or refund as they are the traditional shopper who do the returns. Look at how that has morphed on social media, its also a way to highlight female abuse to challenge the normal or traditional view of women in society.

In my opinion, I think alot of women become psychotic once they have kids due to the demands on their body, as whilst there is some tacit recognition of post partum psychosis, I think alot of goes unrecognised by the medical experts, in much the same way the belief in religion is a lawful medically unrecognised form of delusional thinking.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#403

Post by lock-the-spock »

moremetadata wrote: post #116

Social media is a psychological weapon that leaves no physical evidence which is why the state is making a big play on mental health. Its a control mechanism on the population because the state deliberately doesn't teach law and parents cant be relied upon, so social media can also be a way to psychological and biologically profile people before choosing to radicalise individuals, set them up for blackmail, or have t…

Im sorry but this is just absurd conspiracy psychobabble. Throw words and buzzphrases together as much as you like, there is still no coherent understanding or argument behind your post. "The government" (or the Illuminati, or the Jews, or ...) wanting XYZ from you because they are evil/malicious/warmongering/control freaks is just a trope.

There is no reason why "the government" (who exactly?) needs a control mechanism in order to biologically profile and radicalise you. None of this babble passes Ockham's razor or basic reason.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#404

Post by ThalesX »

bazmattaz wrote: post #362
ThalesX wrote: post #99

My little sister just started high school and in less than a semester is unrecognizable. There is no more her in her day to day life, everything is curated to perfection. There are no more hobbies, no more interestes, no more curiosities, there is just "me". I was so confident in her ability to withstand the impact of social media, due to her education, but ultimately I was just shocked at how fast the change was. I…

> I now no longer believe the human brain is capable of withstanding its effects. 100% agree. I don’t think any brain born after the social media age can resist getting hooked on it. For those of us born before the dawn of the internet maybe some of us don’t get the appeal.

I have a 2 year old nephew. I'm curious if being born with a tablet in hand will adapt them better to this new world.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#405

Post by belorn »

lsy wrote: post #185

I think it's somewhat important to ask why this effect is more observable for girls than for boys, and Haidt does not seem to really reflect on that. Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by fi…

It is a very interesting aspect of all this kind of discussion that when any problem exist for girls and women, the problem is described as being caused by an external force. When ever a problem exist for boys and men, the problem is described as an internal force within the boys and men themselves. As long I have seen those topics on HN it never fails to display this cultural view about men and women.

Men not graduating as much as women, must be mens fault for not studying enough. Women not earning the same as men, must be mens fault. Boys being isolated and depressed, must their video gameing and porn habits. Girls getting mental illness from social media, must be social expectations we stack on girls and women. Men getting worse outcomes in hospitals? Must be their behavior. Women getting worse outcomes in hospitals? Must be bias by doctors against women. Why are there more men in prisons? Must be testosterone. Why more women at home taking care of children? Must be cultural.

Any observable difference between men and women, can be describe as either being caused by external factors like social expectations or internal factors like behavior and hormones. Whenever I see researchers doing a comprehensive and deep study to explain why something is observed more in one gender than the other the usual answer is a tiny bit of biology and a huge (dominating) dose of culture. Such answer generally does not change base on gender, so if we are asking why social media is causing mental illness more in girls and boys, the answer is likely a tiny bit of biology and a huge dose of culture.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#406

Post by ThalesX »

nvarsj wrote: post #345
ThalesX wrote: post #99

My little sister just started high school and in less than a semester is unrecognizable. There is no more her in her day to day life, everything is curated to perfection. There are no more hobbies, no more interestes, no more curiosities, there is just "me". I was so confident in her ability to withstand the impact of social media, due to her education, but ultimately I was just shocked at how fast the change was. I…

Relax. Sounds like a typical HS girl trying to be cool and fit in. When she reaches university she will mellow out substantially.

I'm not, not relaxed. I've also been in high school and spent time with typical HS girls. I also have a very communicative relationship with my sister. It's typical for today, not the typical narration of old. Also have you seen university students today?

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#407

Post by nsfmc »

eastbound wrote: post #203
lsy wrote: post #185

I think it's somewhat important to ask why this effect is more observable for girls than for boys, and Haidt does not seem to really reflect on that. Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by fi…

> Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by finding other ways to be valued as human beings. Before absconding boys from harm, maybe we should check twice on their health. They are often forgotten or their difficulties brushed off in studies. How are addictions progressing? Obesity maybe? Why are they all on 9Gag? Let’s check their level of racism and misogyny, it might be a pro…

an earlier newsletter shows this distressing graph of teen suicides and, shocker, boys are doing terribly, a suicide rate at least three times more than girls, but the author seems to find the 34% delta less distressing. the data is unsettling, but the author doesn't remotely confront the question about why 2017 is a post-2010 maxima for both boys and girls. (which would probably change the boys delta to at least 60 percent and possibly undermine the premise that social media exclusively harms young women)

https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/i/101249738/increases-in-...

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#408

Post by [deleted] »

caput770 wrote: post #359
lsy wrote: post #185

I think it's somewhat important to ask why this effect is more observable for girls than for boys, and Haidt does not seem to really reflect on that. Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by fi…

I think part of it is that for every teenage girl spending 5 hours a day on social media, there's a teenage boy spending 5 hours a day playing video games, often with other teenage boys. I'd guess that video games are a more positive way to socialize, because teenagers are cooperating and competing rather than comparing themselves to others on social media.

[deleted]

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#409

Post by giraffe_lady »

josephg wrote: post #399
caput770 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of it is that for every teenage girl spending 5 hours a day on social media, there's a teenage boy spending 5 hours a day playing video games, often with other teenage boys. I'd guess that video games are a more positive way to socialize, because teenagers are cooperating and competing rather than comparing themselves to others on social media.

Yep. People seem to forget the pearl clutching in the 90s over boys playing violent video games. If the media was to be believed, video games were inevitably going to raise a generation of men ready to shoot up schools at the slightest provocation. Lots of research later, we started finding the men who grew up playing multiplayer video games were more strategic and often made better leaders. The fact that overwatch h…

uhhhhh I don't think the video games are the reason but boys shooting up schools did turn out to be a big problem you know. So, idk, they were probably worried about the wrong thing but it seems they were right to be worried about that outcome.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#410

Post by beezlebroxxxxxx »

hn92726819 wrote: post #334
beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...that many people would find offensive. It's a lost cause to suggest that corporations implicitly understand something innate about female psychology... You are wrong. Feminism as a broad social movement, and as an academic discipline, explicitly sought to question and attack the social structures and behaviors that were often insisted to be "innate" about female psychology and well being. Basically no one would…

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with either of you. However, it seems you say > You are wrong But also: > Many more people would find it offensive ... Is somehow a result of femaleness tout-court But the person you're replying to seems to be saying that if there is some ingrained female-related cause, it couldn't be discussed today. How does the second thing I quoted from you not directly agree with the comment you…

Because the implication of their argument is biological causation, which is pure conjecture on their part.

On the other hand, the entire posted article goes at length to study the social impact of social media for young people and young girls in particular and routinely references the heightened effect of the hyper focus on bodies for young girls.

Their comment is just a naked assertion. Would people find it offensive? Well, if the entire basis for your point is a strawman, then yes. But as far as I can tell, there is no causal evidence between femaleness and social media addiction or suicidal ideation. The need to leap to biological causation is unwarranted and unsupported.

Acting like they're already agrieved is a rhetorical slight of hand without substance.

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