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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#251

Post by rglover »

moremetadata wrote: post #116

Social media is a psychological weapon that leaves no physical evidence which is why the state is making a big play on mental health. Its a control mechanism on the population because the state deliberately doesn't teach law and parents cant be relied upon, so social media can also be a way to psychological and biologically profile people before choosing to radicalise individuals, set them up for blackmail, or have t…

> Social media is a psychological weapon that leaves no physical evidence which is why the state is making a big play on mental health.

Bingo. The entire thing is a psyop designed to artificially limit and homogenize groups to make them more predictable and easier to control.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#252

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

eastbound wrote: post #203
lsy wrote: post #185

I think it's somewhat important to ask why this effect is more observable for girls than for boys, and Haidt does not seem to really reflect on that. Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by fi…

> Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by finding other ways to be valued as human beings. Before absconding boys from harm, maybe we should check twice on their health. They are often forgotten or their difficulties brushed off in studies. How are addictions progressing? Obesity maybe? Why are they all on 9Gag? Let’s check their level of racism and misogyny, it might be a pro…

I think this might be whataboutism. It’s clear to me the original poster was speaking exclusively on the social media aspect and the fact that social media does not have a similar causal effect of mental illness specifically on boys, and so I don’t know how addiction/obesity/etc contribute here. I agree there may be other effects on men, but it seems very clear here that the original poster was talking about social media specifically.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#253

Post by bobthepanda »

gtvwill wrote: post #220
nerdponx wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is the classic "millennials are sad because they have unrealistically high expectations" drivel that I thought we had buried for good. Even for 2013 it seems pretty trashy. Lucy doesn't think she's unusually wonderful, and to assume so is completely unfair to Lucy. Lucy was told over and over and over that all she needed to do was go to college and work hard at anything somewhat respectable, and financia…

You don't have any kids yet do you? If you do, what dreams do you fill their heads with if not that of a happy life?

The flip side of that, is that there are a fair amount of parents, who get incredulous if their child doesn't have the dream social standard that they themselves found it easy to achieve. How many people in their mid-20s today are homeowners without student debts?

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#254

Post by watwut »

xbar wrote: post #138
anigbrowl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's trying to simplify it for a general audience, vs putting out an academic paper that might be discussed and nodded over, only to be misrepresented or over-simplified in health/science reporting and largely ignored. I don't fully agree with his argument and have said so before (briefly, I think it overlooks other major contextual factors like increasing international violence and political polarization tha…

I am completely convinced that international violence does not now, nor has it ever, caused much depression in US-based 12-year-old girls. Further, I find the notion that it is was an increasing trend from 2010 to 2022 compared with 2001 to 2010 is maximally revisionist. Same for political polarization (sidebar: the notion that political polarization is an "other...factor" outside of social media seems poorly conside…

There was no coup in 2001

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#255

Post by texaslonghorn5 »

welshwelsh wrote: post #225
shagie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the generations are a bit dated - https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-... > Social media creates a world for Lucy where A) what everyone else is doing is very out in the open, B) most people present an inflated version of their own existence, and C) the people who chime in the most about their careers are usually those whose careers (or relationships) are going the best, while struggling…

I'm not convinced that any of that is bad. >the people who chime in the most about their careers are those whose careers (and relationships) are going the best As it should be. Only a very small minority of people have careers or relationships worth emulating, and they should be setting examples for everyone else to aspire to. Lucy is upset because she knows that she can do better. She sees people who are no smarter…

there's a lot to unpack in this comment but I'll pick off one point and maybe others will contest the rest

> Only a very small minority of people have careers or relationships worth emulating, and they should be setting examples for everyone else to aspire to.

Of those that have relationships worth emulating I doubt they are parasocially broadcasting it for the world to see. To the contrary, most of these images that you see on social media are heavily curated and manicured and don't really reflect reality.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#256

Post by throw_pm23 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #219
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

I had my 12 year old daughter read the article and after she argued a while I said: Ok, write up your rejoinder and I will post it and see what others think. For context we severely restrict access to social media in our house, but of course they find ways around this as expected (I don't pi-hole because I want them to learn to be hackers) ----------------------------------- *Why I think it’s reasonable for me to hav…

That's a very well-argued response, congratulations. I will only take issue with the last sentence. I don't know the studies, but most of my friends from school who were smoking in moderation back then, ended up as heavy smokers as adults. Those who avoided it completely (partly due to stricter parenting) largely seem to stay smoking-free in later life.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#257

Post by xwdv »

lsy wrote: post #185

I think it's somewhat important to ask why this effect is more observable for girls than for boys, and Haidt does not seem to really reflect on that. Social media in and of itself is really just an accelerant for the particular set of social expectations we stack on girls and women around appearance and how that relates to self-worth. Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by fi…

We know why. But few authors are going to come out and talk about that. They do not want to be perceived in the wrong way. It should be very obvious to anyone who has spent some time on social media and has thought critically about the topic.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#258

Post by andix »

largepeepee wrote: post #23

"It also creates a trap—a collective action problem—for girls and for parents. Each girl might be worse off quitting Instagram even though all girls would be better off if everyone quit." I like this part, it is quite clear quitting social media alone is probably even worse and self-isolating than not taking part. The solution would be to address it on a societal level, but that requires pretty strong societal/politi…

That would be an interesting study. If somebody is mentally ill and just quits social media, does the isolation really make it even worse, or is it still better than staying on social media.

There are for sure still some kids that don’t use social media. So those kids won’t be completely alone with that decision.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#259

Post by beachy »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #219
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

I had my 12 year old daughter read the article and after she argued a while I said: Ok, write up your rejoinder and I will post it and see what others think. For context we severely restrict access to social media in our house, but of course they find ways around this as expected (I don't pi-hole because I want them to learn to be hackers) ----------------------------------- *Why I think it’s reasonable for me to hav…

I love the way she saved her killer point for the end. She will go far.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#260

Post by colpabar »

Zetice wrote: post #245
stuckinhell wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

This is such a ridiculously offensive argument to make. You're saying that every living male who is depressed is depressed because he's an incel waiting for his perfect tradwife?
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