The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines • Hacker News Board

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#61

Post by seafoam » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:13 PM UTC

prmph wrote: post #51

boeingUH60 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

Botswana and Rwanda seems to be countries with lower levels of corruption and reasonably good or improving public services. Ghana too was doing well in the last decade, but now has taken a turn for the worse since the current government took over. I live in Ghana, and the level of corruption now, and the neglect of a proper development agenda, is unbelievable. So, I don’t think there is necessarily anything that make…

Paul Rusesabagina could not be reached for comment.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#62

Post by moronicQ » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:18 PM UTC

boeingUH60 wrote: post #23

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

[dead]

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#63

Post by wonderwonder » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:19 PM UTC

superdeeda wrote: post #35

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

"Afrikaans Paramilitary groups" was basically what Apartheid was, only state sanctioned. > Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. It's like saying COVID rates grew XXX% in 2020 due to some new government. Yes, SA's HIV rate is absolutely awful, but HIV hardly existed before the end of Apartheid.

Mbeki, The president of south Africa ran a program denying aids was caused by a virus. His health minister instead recommend lemon juice and beetroot.

"In the following eight years of his presidency, Mbeki continued to express sympathy for HIV/AIDS denialism, and instituted policies denying antiretroviral drugs to AIDS patients.[1] The Mbeki government even withdrew support from clinics that started using AZT to prevent mother-to-child transmission of HIV. He also restricted the use of a pharmaceutical company's donated supply of nevirapine, a drug that helps keep newborns from contracting HIV"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism_in_South_....

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#64

Post by hammock » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:20 PM UTC

heywherelogingo wrote: post #7

TremendousJudge wrote: post #6

https://archive.is/A8U7z

Thanks, that cookie thing was unacceptable; OneTrust is almost always an instant click on the back button for me.

I didn’t see a cookie notice, maybe I already consented. What is one trust and why is it so bad?

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#65

Post by hammock » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:23 PM UTC

phyphy wrote: post #13

I sometimes wonder what the future of human rights is considering a scenario from 10 generations from now. The survived miners will probably have children. The children who are not fit (neither physically nor mentally) will die working in mines. The mentally fit children will migrate to US. The physically fit children will have more children that are physically fit. What will happen then? Why are we ignoring the futu…

“Hard times make hard men, hard men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times”

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#66

Post by wonderwonder » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:25 PM UTC

X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #29

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

Really odd to draw the line at before apartheid and after. Jacob Zuma's reign was really a clear sign of corruption hitting an extremely high level & he did things like say I took a shower after so I wouldn't get AIDs. My layman understanding is that the ANC's dominance of politics enabled extreme corruption to take place. It does look like they've finally started to lose hold

Not really. The end of apartheid was a monumental change in the country on a scale that is difficult to explain. Everything that came after was completely different.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#67

Post by WheelsAtLarge » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:31 PM UTC

boeingUH60 wrote: post #23

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

I'm one that believes that without a common point of unity groups can not prosper. It's easier to break apart than to stay together. Large established countries have a long enough background that they can count on national patriotism or a Royal or something similar to unite on. Unfortunately, all(i think) black majority countries have been created from areas that were formerly part of another state that dominated it and the last thing they want to do is follow the practices of the domineering state. Yet, they don't have the history and myths that can bring them together as one group to succeed as a nation. They don't even have the family history to count on since whole cultures have been destroyed and they can't count on their culture to unite on.

In time, these nations will find a single point of unity but it will take generations and strong leaders.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#68

Post by gopher_space » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:31 PM UTC

boeingUH60 wrote: post #23

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

Take a look at the white-majority countries that are in a similar boat. You're different from Russia only in that one global power didn't seize control of your continent a few centuries ago.

From my perspective it looks like you're speed-running a continental democracy.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#69

Post by bpodgursky » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:32 PM UTC

gowld wrote: post #33

comonoid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody works at them as most males were drafted.

Not nearly "most". Ukraine has 11million eligible soldiers. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2022/05/04/d...

They are talking about the L/DNR, which did in fact draft the majority of their male population. They were literally sweeping the streets any adult men they could find.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#70

Post by akomtu » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 10:35 PM UTC

boeingUH60 wrote: post #23

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

Africans don't worship the state, so the state cannot find a stable footing, and the void left gets filled with anarchy.

The reason all major nations are the way they are is the cult of the state: it combines the selfish ambition of the people and brings it to the altar of the war machine demon, quite literally. This manifests in earnest worship of the law and order for its own sake, the greatness of empire, the national security and the faceless economy as the highest idol. The war machine lives only to fight other war machines, it wants to keep everyone in its iron fist, including its own people, and make them worship its greatness. It's a dumb and selfish ruler, so all empires whither and die in its "caring" hands, and with it dies the demon. Then anarchy fills the void to multiply sufferings, until another war machine rises and gets the people under its thumb. Balancing between the two evils is the doom of every advanced nation. Prosperity is a transient and almost incidental property here.