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The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

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Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#31

Post by concordDance »

gowld wrote: post #27
boeingUH60 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

[flagged]

Where the heck did you get the idea this is restricted to black majority countries? Like, check out the history of Poland some time.

The European powers generally conquered, colonised or bullied wherever they could. Some countries like Vietnam recovered well, others like Ethiopia did not.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#32

Post by concordDance »

gowld wrote: post #26
concordDance wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think South Africans would be better off today if there had been no attempt to apolish apartheid? Genuine question, not a gotcha.

Authoritarian governments are similar to economic bubbles (balloons). They push out everything better and then leave a mess when they collapse. Pretty much everything on GPs list was a problem during apartheid era as well, or caused by it.

There was 30% unemployment in apartheid era?

(Definitely agree with your first paragraph)

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#33

Post by gowld »

comonoid wrote: post #12
thriftwy wrote: post #2

The region of Donbass has illegal coal mines, or kopanki . Not sure what's their legal status now, considering the whole region is grey area.

Nobody works at them as most males were drafted.

Not nearly "most".

Ukraine has 11million eligible soldiers.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2022/05/04/d...

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#34

Post by superdeeda »

concordDance wrote: post #21
wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

Do you think South Africans would be better off today if there had been no attempt to apolish apartheid? Genuine question, not a gotcha.

No, there were hectic sanctions against South Africa. We wouldn't have been able to do business outside of SA, travel to many countries, take part in the Olympics, etc. Probably would've ended up like Cuba.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#35

Post by superdeeda »

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

"Afrikaans Paramilitary groups" was basically what Apartheid was, only state sanctioned.

> Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population.

It's like saying COVID rates grew XXX% in 2020 due to some new government. Yes, SA's HIV rate is absolutely awful, but HIV hardly existed before the end of Apartheid.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#36

Post by grecy »

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I spent three years driving around Africa, exploring the remote corners of thirty five countries and really sinking into the culture as much as possible. After six months I thought I knew a lot. Six month later I learned that was all rubbish and started again. And so on.

I spent a few months in South Africa, and I felt less safe there than any other country on the continent. It is extremely edgy.

I genuinely believe the magic of Mandela was stopping the (immense) majority of blacks from slaughtering the (extremely small) minority of whites for what they did. I had tears streaming down my face for hours in the Apartheid museum in Jburg.

With Mandela long gone, many of the problems I saw in South Africa, I think, are the result. "It's time we got you back", etc.

It pains me to say it, but I'll be shocked it the country doesn't tear itself apart in the coming decades.

Countries like Botswana feel like the polar opposite, where blacks and whites have always lived together peacefully, and work together to make the country better for everyone.

For context, I'm white.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#37

Post by cpursley »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #23
wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

Isn't Nigeria one of the fastest growing countries in the world right now? I haven't visited but I often watch videos about it (and other upcoming African nations) and it seems like Nigeria is on the path to greatness!

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#38

Post by concordDance »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #23
wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

It's useful to have a long unbroken cultural history passing down a set of habits, norms and social institutions useful for highly complex large scale agricultural/industrial society.

Building cultural capital is hard.

That's probably the biggest factor.

There's also the possibility (I don't know of much evidence either way) of differences in mental traits, not necessarily in a less intelligent sense, but in an adapted to a particular way of life sense. Individual humans aren't fully general intelligences and some of us have more skills in some areas than others, this may also apply across people's groups that diverged in lifestyle a hundred generations ago, leading to slightly different specializations that nonethless make it slightly harder to function in an environment made for another group.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#39

Post by SadTrombone »

concordDance wrote: post #24
jeffwask wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we don't continue apartheid, where will we get billionaires to buy social media companies and run them into the ground as a political stunt?

Are you saying that Musk somehow inherited $44 billion from his still-living father's stake in an Emerald mine said father bought for under a $100k?

Unless I'm missing an edit, that's not remotely what they're saying.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#40

Post by concordDance »

cpursley wrote: post #37
boeingUH60 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

Isn't Nigeria one of the fastest growing countries in the world right now? I haven't visited but I often watch videos about it (and other upcoming African nations) and it seems like Nigeria is on the path to greatness!

It was doing well until 2015, then per capita gdp seems to have gone down again to 2010 levels.

It also has the issue that its going to hit 600 million people this century with no way to feed them.

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