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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#161

Post by verse »

u801e wrote: post #29
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oh my god, did you see what Stacy posted last night!" But your daughter missed it because " you didn't let her have an Instagram account!" It seems to me that such worries are well-founded. At best, she made the decision herself and still feels the pain of it.

Not all 12 year olds are in a single social group. If one is being left out because they don't have an instagram account, there's another social group they can gravitate to that has other interests besides instagram posts.

> there's another social group they can gravitate to that has other interests besides instagram posts.

no, there isn't

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#162

Post by lettergram »

warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

My parents always told me “we can only control what goes on in our house”

I’d have that attitude — show your children this study and explain why they can’t use it in your home. “I won’t support making you mentally ill”

In reality, your kids will likely subvert you to some degree. That said if you set the clear boundaries and alternatives it might not be bad. Particularly, if you’re upfront and explain.

I personally send my kids to a school that where we signed an agreement for no tech in the classroom (or generally limit it at home). At the very least, that ensures kids can be kids at school. After that; I suggest getting them in activities and keeping them active.

In many ways connectivity is great, it’s the algorithmic enhancement and broadcasting that’s at issue. I doubt there’s mental health issues related to texting one-on-one for instance (or very limited issues).

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#163

Post by MengerSponge »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #33
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #9

I wonder if online dating tends to lead to similar impacts to mental health for some groups of people as social media does to teen girls. Just like in Haidt's examples, it's impersonal, phone-based, leading to constant social comparison, feelings of rejection, ostracism and ghosting. I wouldn't be shocked if a few years from now research came out showing that it has similar effects to adults, but they're just better…

Anecdotal, but dating apps sure helped crush the self-esteem of my sister. She still gets on them occasionally, because there's no alternative now. Guys in the post-#metoo era just won't approach a girl at a bar the way they used to.

The way they used to??? Jesus H. Christ were they approaching women at bars with their genitals outside their pants? Because that's what #MeToo was about.

You can still ask to buy a stranger a drink. You're allowed start a conversation with someone you find attractive. But it's long odds. It's much better to do something with a group: join a choir, go to yoga class, take art or cooking classes, etc. It's a win-win too, because you won't meet someone right off, and while you're building that community you still get to sing/exercise/create/eat.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#164

Post by autoexec »

samstave wrote: post #105
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

As the Father of Three girls ; I propose a screen-age limit. Just like the drinking limit, and I think that certain sites should have a limit of 10 years old. Only educational sites and videos should be available to anyone under 10. I KNOW this is a horrendously hard problem to solve - but kids should EARN sceen time by 'playing outside time' or something. Kids born to cities are fucked. kids born to dense 'no-nature…

> Only educational sites and videos should be available to anyone under 10.

I don't think you could enforce this anyway, but it's also a terrible idea. I can't imagine what my life would have been like if my local library or bookseller felt like you do about the internet and I was trapped reading fiction way below by level.

The solution to the problem isn't censorship and holding inquisitive children back, it's parenting and guiding children safely while they explore their interests and the world they live in.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#165

Post by hbrn »

BulgarianIdiot wrote: post #8

The article promises evidence, but it starts by repeating the premise half a dozen times, then offering correlations and loose theories. If there was evidence in there, I missed it. Maybe there was. But even if there was this was a badly formatted article. Why can't people succinctly describe their thesis and then have a nice outline for the fine details on the proof? Is this not something we learn at uni, or even hi…

Correlation is evidence.

You might be asking for a proof, but proving causation for historical events is nearly impossible.

Overwhelming amount of correlation is as good as it gets. For example if you can see the same trends in other regions where inflection point strongly correlates with social networks entering the market (i.e. being launched/unbanned/localized).

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#166

Post by rootusrootus »

dmonitor wrote: post #45
barbazoo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be frustrating to see this problem approaching and not knowing what to do. I wonder if at some point the only way out is to radically change one's family's lifestyle. Maybe homeschooling, very limited technology at home, living in a community with like-minded people, something like that?

this model breaks down because you have to enter society eventually. transitioning from homeschooling to highschool junior year and then into a large university was very difficult in my personal experience.

This was very much my observation of my nieces and nephews who went through that experience. They went all the way to adulthood home schooled, and the net result was they were wholly unprepared to be adults in modern society. They made it, mostly, but it was a rough couple years of adjustment.

On top of that, far from acquiring the values their parents hoped they'd get, they ended up with the reverse. Their attitudes are largely polar reversed from their parents, and they're incredibly resentful of having had those values pushed on them for the entirety of their childhood.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#167

Post by oomemoryerror »

jsonne wrote: post #71

Anecdotally I removed all social media from my phone recently and I only am using Twitter for work on desktop. My mood has improved dramatically and my focus is improving. Towards the end I found myself getting angry at posts that showed curated idyllic lives and realized that it's all really a facade. To that end the last post I saw on Tiktok before deleting it basically said that social media is so insidious becaus…

Anecdotally, I think using social media requires a sense of emotional intelligence in order to not be adversely affected. You have to be cognizant that the highlights of other people’s lives aren’t comparable to your own life. Otherwise, you go down the spiral of thinking that your life is so much worse than others’.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#168

Post by swader999 »

colinrand wrote: post #104

YMMV, but the thing that seems to work in my house (mid teen girl) is to actively be engaged with her social life and have the meta (not Meta) conversation about social media impact with her regularly. She will have to learn to deal with her reality and live with it on her own, but helping her have a set of tools to describe and analyze it is beneficial. Tools like being aware of how much time she spends on it, how o…

I like your reply a lot. We turn the wifi off at bedtime too. Sleep needs to be sacred.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#169

Post by throwaway1777 »

mcbuilder wrote: post #120
austinl wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once sat next to a dean of private school on a plane—she mentioned that the ~100 parents that sent their children to the school signed an agreement that they would restrict their children's access to social media until 9th grade. I have no idea how well it was adhered to or enforced, but it surprised me that the parents of the school and the dean were trying to collectively organize action around this issue to prev…

And at 9th grade it's a free for all? Looking back the high school years would have been the worst for my own self esteem, angst, etc. Glad none of it was recorded. :)

Maybe, but middle school is often thought to be the worst. Kids are so young at that age but also smart enough to be exposed to all kinds of things.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#170

Post by AndrewUnmuted »

ljm wrote: post #143
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

I would contest one point in the article, and I admit this is dependent on where you live: > But social media is very different because it transforms social life for everyone, even for those who don’t use social media, whereas sugar consumption just harms the consumer. In countries with single-payer healthcare (or socialised healthcare), it's not true that it harms only the consumer. If it turns into obesity, diabete…

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