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Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

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Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#171

Post by gilbetron »

pxlpshr wrote: post #97
mabbo wrote: post #64

I said this in another thread on this topic, but this was one of the key reasons I left Amazon in 2021. I knew this was coming. It was clear from tech survey (company-wide very long survey on all topics) that devs did not want to be in the office. Yet there was an email from leadership that said "We know you all can't wait to be back in the office". This bizarre dichotomy where we know they know we don't want this, b…

I'm sorry but there's no correlation to AMZN's stock price reaching all-time highs. 1) The entire world was caught in a two-year pandemic and caused e-commerce to exceed retail spending virtually overnight (See: SHOP, BIGC, etc)... and 2) The fed printed an asinine amount of money that dislocated the market from reality. Your work-from-home team had nothing to do with either of those two massive tailwinds.

If the stock goes up, you will not give credit to remote work.

If the stock goes down, you will blame remote work.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#172

Post by kcplate »

zapdrive wrote: post #56
dsm4ck wrote: post #9

Looks like Management has decided that immediate 5 day RTO will cause too many resignations all at once. Start with 3 days, then 6 months later 4 days, and finally full time RTO will spread the resignations out and reduce business disruption.

With over 400k tech layoffs in the last 1 year, I wouldn't be worried about resigning employees of I were a big corp.

The coming years will have stories of regret from tech folks who arrogantly left good positions because of RTO and then failed to find WFH jobs because those were all snapped up by the very best of the best.

Nothing can bring an ego down to earth faster than to realize that of the 400k workers out there looking for work…more than half have better resumes, better interviewing skills, and a better chance to secure the jobs than you do.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#173

Post by cultureswitch »

xwdv wrote: post #28
eckza wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Boy these employees are about to get what looks like a very expensive lesson in expectation / risk management. Is that really the takeaway, here?

What else is there to takeaway? They knew they weren’t working for a remote-first company. They knew what their contract said. They played a dangerous game and now they’re finally burned. You cannot collect an Amazon salary living out in Idaho or Nebraska.

I suppose an overly optimistic employee could have thought that remote work is supported by the data, therefore it would be likely for Amazon to adopt it.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#174

Post by cultureswitch »

bko wrote: post #51
flerchin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be unreasonable when making Silicon Valley profits for my employer?

Wouldn't it be just as likely to pay Montana salaries to people even if they choose to live in Silicon Valley? A lot of people arguing for ability to work from anywhere don't realize they are now essentially competing with the entire world, or at least the entire population of engineers in their timezone.

This is a relatively neutral effect because I also have more choices of employers as a result. It's just a merging of labor markets. If anything, remote work is a net positive for everyone involved (and actually, everyone): less wasted time, money and emissions, fewer reasons for everyone to be living all bunched up in expensive cities.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#175

Post by eternalban »

knorker wrote: post #159
eternalban wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value extracted from a worker is not a function of their location. SV salaries are for technical ability and competence. And I like Montana so no offense to you folks out there, but sure, pay provincial salaries and get provincial work quality.

Then why are exactly the same workers in Poland being paid much less? SV employees are overpaid. They are being paid to work in SV . Because no sane person would want to live in San Francisco, Menlo Park, Cupertino, or Mountain View. And the people doing the exact same work in Warsaw, with the exact same skills and performance, are being underpaid. I have no sympathy for the people on the SV side of this equation.

> Then why are exactly the same workers in Poland being paid much less?

Ask for more and if you think you are being undervalued look elsewhere.

> Because no sane person would want to live in San Francisco, Menlo Park, Cupertino, or Mountain View.

This sort of (extreme) caricature strikes me as a form of coping, to be honest, and doesn't really reflect well on your mindset. "no sane person", seriously?

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#176

Post by x86x87 »

zapdrive wrote: post #56
dsm4ck wrote: post #9

Looks like Management has decided that immediate 5 day RTO will cause too many resignations all at once. Start with 3 days, then 6 months later 4 days, and finally full time RTO will spread the resignations out and reduce business disruption.

With over 400k tech layoffs in the last 1 year, I wouldn't be worried about resigning employees of I were a big corp.

that's a very shortsighted way of looking at it.

assume you are unhappy with this situation and you decide to f off. who is more likely to find a new job (especially in this economy) ? top performers or low performers?

as a company this virtually guarantees that most resignations will come from top performers. I give it 2-3 weeks before they walk this back and/or maybe go to 1-2 days per week.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#177

Post by x86x87 »

plandis wrote: post #12

Seems like a great idea… If your intention is to get people to quit without needing to lay them off and pay out severance.

yes. a great idea if you want people to work just hard enough to not be fired while they are looking for their next gig.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#178

Post by krapp »

chasd00 wrote: post #70
gitfan86 wrote: post #5

No one should be surprised by this. I interviewed at AMZN and the online quiz was basically "Which delivery driver would you fire in this scenario" and the 1-on-1 interviews were with people who when I asked what you like about AMZN replied "the stock price". If you take a job at AMZN you are treated like a cog in the machine. And that is fine if that is what you want.

Well to be fair, you’re never more than a cog in your employer’s machine. That’s the whole point in having employees.

Yeah, but for some reason tech people seem to think they're the only cogs that matter.

They really thought companies were going to move heaven and earth just to make their personal comfort and convenience a priority.

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#179

Post by x86x87 »

kmac_ wrote: post #96
theodpHN wrote: post #2

Amazon Wants 10,000+ Employee Dogs Back in Office, Facilitating Collaboration https://slashdot.org/submission/17188709/amazon-wants-10000-...

Do the dogs wander around the offices? What about employees with allergies?

technically dogs should not wonder around. employees with allergies are usually placed on a floor with no dogs with beefy filtration systems (and there are also special no-dogs building). collaboration, amiright?

Re: Amazon employees express dismay, anger about sudden return-to-office policy

#180

Post by x86x87 »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #37
ragnot wrote: post #7

It's pretty much a layoff in disguise at this point.

If it were, they'd just go for the full 5 days in office. That would be a very easy way to lop off a bunch of folks.

nah. you don't want all the people to leave at once.
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