Most young men are single. Most young women are not • Hacker News Board

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#201

Post by bradlys » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 6:07 PM UTC

danielrpa wrote: post #194

bradlys wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a high success rate when getting a response This is where I think you're undervaluing what's going on with what I said. Often getting a response is all you ever need. The same is true when going out to a bar or whatever. If a woman finds you physically attractive - you really just need to not shoot yourself in the foot when interacting and it's mostly smooth sailing. What I'm trying to say to you is: you might thin…

I suppose that there is no objective way to measure that, and we won't arrive at a conclusion by just talking about it. Maybe I could go use one of those sites where you post a picture and people rate you? You are right that I'm physically attractive to a number of women. I just don't think this number is very big, haha... at least compared to most of my friends, but maybe my friends are way more attractive than aver…

Because calling someone good looking is considered shallow and we deem shallowness a bad trait to exhibit. No one is going to say - “well the only reason I really got interested in my partner was because they were good looking”. They’ll try to posthoc justify it by saying your personality or whatever was good - even though your looks is what opened the door.

I’m not denying the skills. I literally talked about the doofus with good looks. He could improve his personality and skills and then he’d be a gigachad… I am saying that improving your skills is hardly sufficient for today’s market. We live in a different time and it’s wildly superficial.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#202

Post by zassy » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 6:09 PM UTC

PurpleRamen wrote: post #171

Jensson wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you bisexual? If not you are attracted to femininity or masculinity. I guess you are attracted to femininity so you don't recognize that masculinity can also be attractive. Women tend to dream of a masculine man with feminine interests, same as men dream of feminine women with masculine interests. If you think that is a contradictory statement, no it isn't, pop culture is full of them. Angelina Jolie in Transform…

Femininity or masculinity are defined by culture, and modern society has lost them on the road of equality. It's quite common with younger people to not have a clear definition of normal femininity and masculinity. After all, everyone can be everything and do everything, so there is no specific difference between the sexes to define the traits, beyond biology. And even biology is questioned in recent years because of…

I mostly agree with this, but it’s missing some details in how many younger people actually behave versus what they believe. A lot of young men and women will claim to not be particularly attracted to femininity or masculinity or believe in traditional views on gender expression while being attracted almost exclusively people who do present traditionally gendered traits.

I’ve met so many young men who say they don’t particularly care if the woman they date are feminine while exclusively pursuing relationships with women who are petite, have long hair, shave all their body hair, dress in almost exclusively feminine clothes like mini skirts, wears a ton of makeup and has very feminine mannerisms. I’ve also met a lot of you women who would say the same about not caring about masculinity in the men they date and then exclusively date tall, muscular, hyper masculine jock types or the bad boy, rebel without a cause artsy types. You’re absolutely right that they’ve changed the definition of masculine and feminine, but they haven’t changed their preferences to match.

I think a big part of the gender disconnect in modern dating is that many men and women have divested themselves from their traditional gender roles while seeking out partners that largely still conform to their traditional gender roles.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#203

Post by ANumberlessMan » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 6:15 PM UTC

kthejoker2 wrote: post #195

What I mostly see in this thread is nobody deeply caring about relationships, marriage, kids, and the like. As the article points out, the rise of sexual gratification without relationships, coinciding with women's reshaping of the financial stability side of relationships, has mostly just resulted in a lopsided winner takes all market around biological attraction. But sexual gratification is .. just ... that. Epheme…

There is absolutely value in long term monogamous relationships. So much value you cannot see it from the inside. It's someone to 'show off' to, and to work for, and to- ineffectively- try to impress. And that matters far, far more than you'd think. It staves off the most brutal of existential crises.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#204

Post by runsWphotons » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

lytefm wrote: post #159

runsWphotons wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is definitely surprising...a big change in last 5-10 years. Women actually dont prefer a v large age gap--less than men and on the order of 2-3 years. Age def explains some of this statistic but isnt enough to explain it all. This is probably also result of slight harem effect and of people categorising relationships differently (man thinks he is single, woman thinks its monogamous etc).

I suppose that the age similarity might mainly be a peer group effect. People in the early twenties tend to hang out a lot with people of around their same age, e.g. due to college/ university classes or parties. As long as dating happens predominantly within the peer group, age differences usually aren't very big. But once online dating is used, larger age differences occur quite naturally.

What I am citing comes from surveys of men and women, not just observations from anecdotes. Women virtually always want men just a bit older, throughout their lives, or at least say they prefer this. I think you can find some of that data in link below.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#205

Post by medvezhenok » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 6:31 PM UTC

mharig wrote: post #153

medvezhenok wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reversion to the mean... "Once upon a time, 4,000 to 8,000 years after humanity invented agriculture, something very strange happened to human reproduction. Across the globe, for every 17 women who were reproducing, passing on genes that are still around today—only one man did the same." https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

Why 'reversion to the mean'?

Further down: "In more recent history, as a global average, about four or five women reproduced for every one man."

The boomer generation was an anomaly because in the 1940's "everyone" (not literally) was having kids independent of ideology. Part of this was because of a vast flattening of status (the depression and shared misery of war probably had a lot to do with it).

Historically (averaging over 1000s of years) - that is abnormal; normally people are a lot more "choosy" for lack of a better word - which is what the anthropological article implies. We're moving back into a world of inequality and more intense status competition in mating - the effects of the Great Depression + World War II have worn off.

https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/an...

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#206

Post by GaryNumanVevo » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 6:31 PM UTC

medvezhenok wrote: post #101

goethes_kind wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have many women as friends you are doing something good and bad at the same time. The good is that you can meet women and can interact with them and can get them to trust you. The bad is that you somehow give off all the wrong signals. Then you go abroad and you think the women are different, but they aren't. I have lived in three countries. You just have a higher value as an American man abroad. Ironically, t…

You should always strive to maximize your value in the dating market - any other strategy is self-defeating (note that you can settle after maximizing - that is totally allowed). That means you should try to meet women doing activities you excel at (relative to other people), demonstrating leadership qualities (giving talks at conferences, for ex.) or in GP's case, moving abroad. I'm not sure how the people you attra…

Counterpoint: Ignore any advice that uses the phrase "maximize your value in the dating market"

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#207

Post by medvezhenok » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #206

medvezhenok wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should always strive to maximize your value in the dating market - any other strategy is self-defeating (note that you can settle after maximizing - that is totally allowed). That means you should try to meet women doing activities you excel at (relative to other people), demonstrating leadership qualities (giving talks at conferences, for ex.) or in GP's case, moving abroad. I'm not sure how the people you attra…

Counterpoint: Ignore any advice that uses the phrase "maximize your value in the dating market"

And reap frustration in your romantic endeavors.

Look, anyone can close their eyes and believe in fairytales. The advice I gave doesn't guarantee anything - it merely increases your chances of a favorable outcome.

If you have issues with the phrasing, read it as "make yourself into a more attractive partner" or however it is politically-correct to phrase the above statement.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#208

Post by danielrpa » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 6:43 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #201

danielrpa wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that there is no objective way to measure that, and we won't arrive at a conclusion by just talking about it. Maybe I could go use one of those sites where you post a picture and people rate you? You are right that I'm physically attractive to a number of women. I just don't think this number is very big, haha... at least compared to most of my friends, but maybe my friends are way more attractive than aver…

Because calling someone good looking is considered shallow and we deem shallowness a bad trait to exhibit. No one is going to say - “well the only reason I really got interested in my partner was because they were good looking”. They’ll try to posthoc justify it by saying your personality or whatever was good - even though your looks is what opened the door. I’m not denying the skills. I literally talked about the do…

Looks will always help - and I'm also literally saying that with my argument by stating that I had a harder time than my buddies because of average looks. I'm also saying that you can very significantly tilt the odds on your favor by "acting right", because that's what I experienced.

Sure, being "charming" probably won't help too much in getting people to reach out to you on Tinder, but it will help you once you get a few hits, and it will also help you in parties, night clubs, work environment etc. We are in a different time, but people still meet in person. If you meet absolutely no single women ever in your day to day, I can see this is a problem but even that can be improved with local sports events, church, Meetups etc. Opportunities are EVERYWHERE.

I went out on a date with a girl who called my phone accidentally - she mistyped the number she wanted to call. I had never met her before, we were absolute strangers until I answered her saying "Sorry, I dialed the wrong number" with "Nope, I don't accept your apology, you are not getting out of it that easily, not with that sweet voice you aren't". She gave me her number, a few phone calls later, we went out. You can do it too, man :).

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#209

Post by medvezhenok » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 6:44 PM UTC

tester756 wrote: post #147

medvezhenok wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should always strive to maximize your value in the dating market - any other strategy is self-defeating (note that you can settle after maximizing - that is totally allowed). That means you should try to meet women doing activities you excel at (relative to other people), demonstrating leadership qualities (giving talks at conferences, for ex.) or in GP's case, moving abroad. I'm not sure how the people you attra…

If you're using "strategies" then you're already not genuine, thus not trustworthy, imo.

Women have plenty of ways of determining whether someone is genuine or not.

Some of the things have nothing to do with you whatsoever; this advice is merely about increasing the probabilities (i.e. card-counting in blackjack, if you prefer). A man living in NYC will have a better chance of finding love than a man in San Francisco purely based on the city that they live in - both could be very genuine people. The only thing different between the two is the ratio of men to women in the city.

We must remember not to attach emotional judgements to statistics.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#210

Post by 4gotunameagain » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 6:49 PM UTC

sw104 wrote: post #155

_trackno5 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am highly skeptical that computer games and porn addictions are significant factors here. Sure they are problems that need to be solved, but I doubt it is a significant contribution to the problem. I can see how social media might bias perception though. I guess pre-internet era you just had to compete against people in your local community when you were looking for a partner. Way harder now to standout in the worl…

I think op has a point. Almost every woman I know, my wife included, expresses some level of disgust at the idea of an adult man playing video games. I don't think I know many women who are alright with a man who plays video games, let alone a man who spends 1 hour or more on it per day. A few friends of my wife REALLY complain about men playing video games (dating prospects and current partners). It's a double stand…

Women with double standards ? Colour me shocked :)

It's the age old: men are told that they should do better, women that they deserve better (for whatever reason)

It's sad to live during such tumultuous times. The lives of most people for the majority of time has been similar to the lives of their parents, and grandparents. Imagine the feeling of safety that this could bring. Now of course there were myriad other issues, but maybe a thousand years from now we manage to reach some kind of steadier state in a post industrial society. But right now we are cursed to live in maelstrom.