Live data from Hacker News

Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

tedium.co

121–128 of 128 posts

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#121
post #110
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Than mass-marketed commercial pop by commitee? Oh, yes, it will be...

Indie can be a pose. Punk can be a pose. Anything can be a pose. If there's one thing the music world should know by now, it's that. (Hell, one of the best-known punk groups, the Sex Pistols, was a boy band put together by Malcolm McLaren. Sid Vicious was McLaren's idea.)

They were never an indie band but they inspired other who were.

Punk doesn't mean indie.. but the simplicity of technique makes it a natural fit

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#122
post #77
post #57

I happen to know someone in the music industry. Not huge, but you might have seen them on MTV and you've probably heard their hits. They say modern songs get written by a huge group of songwriters in hotels. Individual words and phrases will earn credits. They go through the list of everything floating in the songwriters' heads and whittle it down on a huge whiteboard and anything put up there and put into the song g…

It’s called a writers room. Get a few songwriters you like in a room and jam together for a few hours. Typically everyone in the room splits the credit even if you were just breathing the air and lending a vibe. Writers rooms and all the writers credits don’t begin to scratch the surface of ghostwriting, though. Many popular songs are picked up from ghostwriters who are paid a flat fee and don’t even get a songwriter…

> lending a vibe

If the vibe would get me $$$ I wouldn't mind to share it with "vibe-lender"

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#123

Modern pop music is a more refined commercial industry than it was in the past. It's been sliding further and further away from art and toward the commercial. It is what it is.

One can make this argument based on the fact Tom McDonald's "Ghost" went to number 1 and he was the sole writer, producer and musician on the song. Love him or hate him, he's still an anomaly as a 100% top to bottom independent artist. He often makes light of this in many of his video shorts.

As insufferable as I find him you are correct, he's as close as you can get to being completely self-made

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#124
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't pull the tricks from The KLF's The Manual: How to Have a Number 1 the Easy Way to get free and uncredited songwriting work out of people anymore, then?

Never heard of it before but it is worth sharing: https://archive.org/details/TheManualHowToHaveANumber1TheEas...

this is worth watching too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2kbZLcsQUo

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah The actual act of orchestration (translating to the different instruments) is an exercise in "backwards compatibility" and musical knowledge. (Because every instrument has a range, a clef, and they play in a range but read on another range, etc, etc because of some weird thing that happened in the 17th century)

So who is actually writing the sheet music nowadays? Is it a specialized company or a part-time contractor?

If you look carefully in the endless credits scroll you can see the credits for the orchestrator(s), if the composer doesn't do the orchestration themselves. Herbert Spencer, for instance, is credited for orchestration of Star Wars Ep. 4, A New Hope. He worked as orchestrator on a lot of other John Williams movies and was a film composer in his own right as well.

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#126
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Than mass-marketed commercial pop by commitee? Oh, yes, it will be...

I know the phrase "mass-marketed commercial pop by committee" produces a visceral reaction, but nothing about it is inherently inauthentic. "Mass-marketed" just means that something is widely promoted. Many of the most creative, influential, and authentic musical groups are "mass-marketed". "Commercial" doesn't really mean anything in this context, as presumably everything that you listen to on the radio/streaming se…

> "Commercial" doesn't really mean anything in this context, as presumably everything that you listen to on the radio/streaming services is commercial.

It means dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. It means being told that instead of deeply personal, complex, and potentially offensive lyrics you're just going to repeat a word or small phrase over and over and over because that sells better doesn't alienate anyone with difficult words or things that might offended them, or might discourage the use (and sale) of that song in commercials, grocery stores, overseas markets, or film soundtracks.

Commercial interests (the desire for as much money as possible at the expense of all else) overrides what would have been deliberate artistic choices in order to maximize profits leading to a landscape of homogenized bland overproduced and unchallenging art.

We've seen many changes in music as a direct result of commercial interests overriding the preferences of artists (and listeners) including the loudness wars, the end of the album as a cohesive work to favor itunes downloads of single tracks, and the lengths of songs getting shorter and shorter to the point where bridges and entire verses are removed.

Not everything you hear on the radio has been fully compromised by commercial interests, but it's a good bet compromises were made and commercial interests have had more influence over what gets heard on the radio than any other factor (talent, skill, popularity, artistry, etc.)

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#127
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that maybe you are biased by being older than you were in previous decades, and thus spending less time and less emotional investment on pop music? Or do you honestly believe that the quality of a whole art form has dropped significantly during this period?

I don’t think you can spend much emotional investment on those songs. Modern music uses less words and notes than previous decades as well as avoiding melody, time signatures, triple eighths, codas

Obviously, this is not true, since many young people care a lot about lots of new music.

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the phrase "mass-marketed commercial pop by committee" produces a visceral reaction, but nothing about it is inherently inauthentic. "Mass-marketed" just means that something is widely promoted. Many of the most creative, influential, and authentic musical groups are "mass-marketed". "Commercial" doesn't really mean anything in this context, as presumably everything that you listen to on the radio/streaming se…

> "Commercial" doesn't really mean anything in this context, as presumably everything that you listen to on the radio/streaming services is commercial. It means dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. It means being told that instead of deeply personal, complex, and potentially offensive lyrics you're just going to repeat a word or small phrase over and over and over because that sells better doesn't alienate a…

> It means dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

It literally doesn't though. Like, that's not the meaning of the word "commercial" in any sense.

Your favorite indie band is commercial. Your friends who charge $5 for their shows are commercial.

Your issues aren't with "commercial" musicians, they're with musicians who prioritize commercial success over artistic expression.

I don't think is a new phenomenon, and actually think it's a lot less prevalent now than it was in the past. With free streaming services, most people have easy exposure to a much wider range of music, and aren't relying on the radio to dictate their tastes.

There have been dozens of albums from the last few years that have had huge commercial success, and also taken big artistic risks. Happy to provide a list of recommendations if you're having trouble finding good new music.

Post reply on HN