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Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

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Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#111

Post by Kaotique »

forevergreenyon wrote: post #37

call me old school, but it doesn't make sense to me that people get to live off the work done once, then repeated (recreated or reproduced by technology) while the 'creator' in practice whomever owns the 'licenses' continues to collect payment for what the technology does (namely: machine-based repetition/reproduction) I guess this is the way NFTs can make real sense: when whomever owns the NFT receives auto-blockcha…

You can buy and sell royalty rights. Artists have sold all their rights for huge sums of quick money while the buyers hopes to earn it back over time.

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#112

Post by Juliate »

coldtea wrote: post #42
manachar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Art that doesn't sell is just a storage problem." Had an artist tell me this once and it stuck with me ever since. He was referring to paintings, but has generally held for every other artistic endeavor. Looking through history art has always been commercial - it's just the audience that changes. For music, musicians who got paid used to be focused on the tastes of just the wealthiest folks who liked to go and be se…

> Looking through history art has always been commercial - it's just the audience that changes. Well, not exactly in the same way. Commercial is not about "catering to an audience", it's about catering to mass audiences, and the compromises that entails. For example, an "artistic" indie group catering to just a tiny minority is not just "as commercial" as a pop production, unless we stretch the term beyond recognitio…

Commercial doesn't mean that it's for mass audiences, it just means that it sells, or that people buy.

Small or large or mass audience targeting (or not targeting) is an adjacent matter to making commerce or not.

Commerce is at root a relationship between someone who provides and someone who provides something else in return.

Artistic vision, craft, authenticity (why, how, what am I doing/saying this?) are orthogonal matters to commerce (what/how do I get in return?).

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#113

Post by omar_alt »

bolanyo wrote: post #92
omar_alt wrote: post #91

I can’t think of a song chorus or a phrase that has endured in the last decade. If it was a gameshow question to complete the lines from these contemporary songs how many would struggle?

Do you think that maybe you are biased by being older than you were in previous decades, and thus spending less time and less emotional investment on pop music? Or do you honestly believe that the quality of a whole art form has dropped significantly during this period?

I don’t think you can spend much emotional investment on those songs. Modern music uses less words and notes than previous decades as well as avoiding melody, time signatures, triple eighths, codas

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#114

Post by raverbashing »

michaelrmmiller wrote: post #82
themadturk wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Hollywood composers outsource orchestration as well, often due to time constraints. John Williams is perfectly capable of orchestrating his work, but often doesn't. I understand he leaves very detailed notes for those who do, however.

Orchestration also means something different these days for most film, TV and game composers compared to the traditional definition. Traditionally, orchestration would be taking a piano or short score and expanding it to be played by an orchestra. Nowadays, almost all media composers create full digital mock-ups of the music first with the entire orchestra and then some. Orchestration then is mostly a process of tran…

Yeah

The actual act of orchestration (translating to the different instruments) is an exercise in "backwards compatibility" and musical knowledge. (Because every instrument has a range, a clef, and they play in a range but read on another range, etc, etc because of some weird thing that happened in the 17th century)

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#116

Post by MichaelZuo »

raverbashing wrote: post #114
michaelrmmiller wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orchestration also means something different these days for most film, TV and game composers compared to the traditional definition. Traditionally, orchestration would be taking a piano or short score and expanding it to be played by an orchestra. Nowadays, almost all media composers create full digital mock-ups of the music first with the entire orchestra and then some. Orchestration then is mostly a process of tran…

Yeah The actual act of orchestration (translating to the different instruments) is an exercise in "backwards compatibility" and musical knowledge. (Because every instrument has a range, a clef, and they play in a range but read on another range, etc, etc because of some weird thing that happened in the 17th century)

So who is actually writing the sheet music nowadays?

Is it a specialized company or a part-time contractor?

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#117

Post by bodhiandphysics »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #116
raverbashing wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah The actual act of orchestration (translating to the different instruments) is an exercise in "backwards compatibility" and musical knowledge. (Because every instrument has a range, a clef, and they play in a range but read on another range, etc, etc because of some weird thing that happened in the 17th century)

So who is actually writing the sheet music nowadays? Is it a specialized company or a part-time contractor?

generally, as in many things in music, orchestrators work freelance. Music is a low paying field, so the pay isn't great, but its not terrible

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#118

Post by AlbertCory »

PeterisP wrote: post #89
AlbertCory wrote: post #45

There's a cynical saying among traditional songwriters: Change a word, get a third. In other words, they give a song to some established star, who makes trivial changes and then claims partial songwriting credit. Is that fair? I don't know. Publishing royalties are so massive that you have to expect people to try to get in on them. Robbie Robertson is notorious for claiming all the songwriting credits for The Band's…

Well, they should be free to use the earlier version without these changes, if they are trivial and not worth it.

who's "they"?

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#119

Post by oneoff786 »

omar_alt wrote: post #91

I can’t think of a song chorus or a phrase that has endured in the last decade. If it was a gameshow question to complete the lines from these contemporary songs how many would struggle?

There are gameshows like this, and contestants do just fine.

Re: Why do modern pop songs have so many credited writers?

#120

Post by greatwave1 »

coldtea wrote: post #88
greatwave1 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The indie group is not necessarily more authentic either.

Than mass-marketed commercial pop by commitee? Oh, yes, it will be...

I know the phrase "mass-marketed commercial pop by committee" produces a visceral reaction, but nothing about it is inherently inauthentic.

"Mass-marketed" just means that something is widely promoted. Many of the most creative, influential, and authentic musical groups are "mass-marketed".

"Commercial" doesn't really mean anything in this context, as presumably everything that you listen to on the radio/streaming services is commercial.

"Pop" is descriptive of the style of the music, not how it's produced (there are indie pop groups).

"by committee" means that multiple people contributed to it. Do you think the only valid creative process is one where somebody works in isolation? If so, that disqualifies pretty much every band / non-solo act from meeting your standards for authenticity.

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