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My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

danlawton.substack.com

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Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#361

Post by coldtea »

nativecoinc wrote: post #297
coldtea wrote: post #11

There's no Buddhism in the West, but in name. Buddhism is a religion associated with a way of life and a culture. It's not something a businessman does on a "weekend retreat" as "mindfulness practice" to get back in the rat race refreshed.

For sure. Most people would agree that doing something as a fitness regiment is not a religion. But you say that there is “no Buddhism” in the West. Clearly there are people who practice Buddhism in the West, whether that be “Western Buddhism” or something else. So one can only surmise that your argument is the following: Only Asians can be Buddhist. Well, that’s quite essentialist and othering towards Asians. But wh…

>Well, that’s quite essentialist and othering towards Asians.

It's rather seeing a religious tradition in its historical context, and recognizing its environment.

It's "western buddhism" that is both orientalism (exoticizing the other) and a form of cultural appropriation and cheapining an original thing.

Note that I don't say that that they are "better Buddhists" or "closer to what Buddha meant" etc, as those are irrelevant. They are authentic even if they are bad at it or indifferent to it.

>Eventually you realize that the only way a born-in-the-West person could become a Buddhist, according to this completely wrongheaded interpretation of “lived experience”, is to do the following

That would be a good way, yes.

At least they wouldn't be a tourist at it.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#362

Post by zozbot234 »

Zachsa999 wrote: post #357

Innocent question by a non meditator. Every couple months when it takes an hour or two to fall asleep, I get this otherworldly feeling; like a specific part of my body is growing unbelievably heavy, large and uncontrollable. It feels like this body part will end up crushing me, suffocating me, imploding, etc. It feels like it's happening to me, but I am not in my body. I start to feel emotions start to wash by me, it…

The state of being about to fall asleep is an altered state of consciousness, and not too different from the states that are entered while meditating. The standard way to address it would be to try and bring that state of anxiety, fear and terror towards a calm equanimity: a sense and intuition that no matter what happens, everything will be okay. This might even help you realize that you actually have some unresolved baggage or stress to work through that's blocking this path and leaving you with that anxiety. But that's quite common and not very hard to address in turn.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#363

Post by mikem170 »

Zachsa999 wrote: post #357

Innocent question by a non meditator. Every couple months when it takes an hour or two to fall asleep, I get this otherworldly feeling; like a specific part of my body is growing unbelievably heavy, large and uncontrollable. It feels like this body part will end up crushing me, suffocating me, imploding, etc. It feels like it's happening to me, but I am not in my body. I start to feel emotions start to wash by me, it…

Some of what you said reminds me of a friend of mine who had "night terrors". This friend described how they would sometimes wake up in the wrong order. Their conscious mind would wake up while the body was still paralyzed with sleep, typically with a terrible feeling of dread, like someone behind them is going to attack them and they can't move. What you described made me wonder if sometimes you fall asleep in the wrong order.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#364

Post by zozbot234 »

bigbluedots wrote: post #359
zozbot234 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is exactly why "tripping" is heavily frowned upon by serious meditators and spiritual practitioners. Experiencing "ego death" (i.e. the three marks of existence) without having the previous spiritual grounding for it to help free you from attachment to the ego, is only a recipe for being even more deeply mired in craving and dukkha.

I'm finding it fascinating how much dogmatic religious junk is being thrown around in the comments here - discussing an article where one of the author's central points is that none of the dogmatic religious junk helped him.

A tradition of meditation and spiritual practices with a history encompassing more than two thousand years is the polar opposite from "dogmatic religious junk"; it's filled with observations derived from experience. The Westernized use of psychedelics is barely a few decades old. I think it's reasonably clear what we should choose if we are to remain humble and avoid dogmaticism.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#365

Post by elbear »

akomtu wrote: post #356
zozbot234 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... the union of wisdom and emptiness ... Ah, the extent that some people will go through to avoid acknowledging God. It's like some people take stubborn pleasure in being purposely nihilistic and strenuously denying all that's good about the world. How this can be part of a supposedly spiritual practice, I just can't understand.

The original term behind "emptiness" is a lot richer than this english word. That's why many books leave those words as is, e.g. rig-pa. "Emptiness" of your mind means something like a thin soap bubble around you. This bubble acts as a lens, it can enlarge arbitrary things, it can create stable patterns on its surface, and all that is useful, but it blocks whatever is outside the bubble. In its natural state it would…

Buddhism also teaches love. The Heart Practices are an example.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#366

Post by starkd »

jelling wrote: post #305
starkd wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never understood the need for meditation retreats. The only purpose of gathering would be to meet and converse with other people. Not to sit and listen to them breathe.

I suspect the primary driver for 1 - 2 week retreats is that is the average Western vacation length and the mindful companies are maximizing revenue relative to CAC. Formal Buddhist training - such as to be a teacher within the Kadampa tradition - can be done once a week over a course of years. Other traditions training requires full-time reading training over years. I wouldn’t recommend someone try to master an inst…

I can think of better ways I would want to spend a vacation.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#367

Post by starkd »

dayvid wrote: post #307
starkd wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never understood the need for meditation retreats. The only purpose of gathering would be to meet and converse with other people. Not to sit and listen to them breathe.

I think for a good deal of them you're in silence (no cell phones or talking with others). It's really valuable to be in silence if you haven't before. You can gain awareness of random thoughts and things you don't notice when you're surrounded by distractions. Doing it for too long or with no stimulation (e.g. only sitting all day and meditating or wandering off w/ no structure when you can maybe do some activities…

I suppose there's some value in them for supplying some kind of structure.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#368

Post by Zachsa999 »

mikem170 wrote: post #363
Zachsa999 wrote: post #357

Innocent question by a non meditator. Every couple months when it takes an hour or two to fall asleep, I get this otherworldly feeling; like a specific part of my body is growing unbelievably heavy, large and uncontrollable. It feels like this body part will end up crushing me, suffocating me, imploding, etc. It feels like it's happening to me, but I am not in my body. I start to feel emotions start to wash by me, it…

Some of what you said reminds me of a friend of mine who had "night terrors". This friend described how they would sometimes wake up in the wrong order. Their conscious mind would wake up while the body was still paralyzed with sleep, typically with a terrible feeling of dread, like someone behind them is going to attack them and they can't move. What you described made me wonder if sometimes you fall asleep in the w…

Thanks for the comment. Interesting observation, you suggest that I am experiencing a form of lucid dreaming, but I only notice it when I experience a specific dream?

One thing that is constant throughout app these occurrences is the emotional path and my mouth lips and tongue that experience this feeling.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#369

Post by Zachsa999 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #362
Zachsa999 wrote: post #357

Innocent question by a non meditator. Every couple months when it takes an hour or two to fall asleep, I get this otherworldly feeling; like a specific part of my body is growing unbelievably heavy, large and uncontrollable. It feels like this body part will end up crushing me, suffocating me, imploding, etc. It feels like it's happening to me, but I am not in my body. I start to feel emotions start to wash by me, it…

The state of being about to fall asleep is an altered state of consciousness, and not too different from the states that are entered while meditating. The standard way to address it would be to try and bring that state of anxiety, fear and terror towards a calm equanimity: a sense and intuition that no matter what happens, everything will be okay. This might even help you realize that you actually have some unresolve…

Thanks for the comment.

I agree, and my experience has been that I can turn it all off. I didn't put it here as a "help me god" but it's been on the back of my mind for years, and I was hoping someone here might have academic knowledgeable with this exact experience.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#370

Post by akomtu »

fluoridation wrote: post #38
ghoastl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am describing my experience. If you make the choice to medicalize my words, that is your own interpretation. But you were not there, you do not know.

You yourself describe it as a hallucinatory state, though. Were you aware that you were hallucinating at the time, or is it only in retrospect that you're able to realize that?

In a country of deaf men, would hearing sounds count as hallucinations?
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