EPA orders Norfolk Southern to conduct all cleanup actions related to derailment

Post by xadhominemx » Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 8:33 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #74

xadhominemx wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phosgene also has very low environmental persistence. I think the actual amount of dioxin created from combustion of vinyl chloride monomer at atmospheric pressure is very low. In any event, both were dispersed into the atmosphere at concentrations that pose(d) very little danger to people outside of the temporary evacuation zone.

I stand corrected. They did a great job and no one in East Palestine is sick

Post by mrguyorama » Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 8:37 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #65

hammock wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the combustion products are relatively benign Who told you that? Phosgene and dioxins are "relatively benign"? Dioxins might more properly be called forever chemicals, and will contaminate the soil and water of five states for decades. I understand they were trying to avoid a bleve. The solution they chose was not based principally on minimizing citizen harm though

I haven't seen anything concrete about dioxins coming from the burning of vinyl chloride. From what I've seen, the known dioxin problem is from the burning PVC , which was in bulk cars that were ignited by the derailment (as opposed to deliberately set on fire). FWIW Only one vinyl chloride car was listed as leaking. I would think the alternative was to bring in mobile pumps, new tanker cars, and possibly chillers. A…

Post by yamtaddle » Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 8:39 PM UTC

pookha wrote: post #27

Apparently there are something like 1K derailments a year in the US? Had no idea...Seems pretty high. https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2023/02/17/tra...

Post by dahfizz » Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 8:42 PM UTC

gretch wrote: post #56

jimkleiber wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if expanding our definition of defense would help...EPA defends the air and water and other public sources from things that will harm the environment and us. Literally has "protection" in the name. Maybe we think it's only protecting the "environment" and that we are separate from the environment.

I think the left usually has very weak messaging (as opposed to the right which has strong messaging but is sometimes just blatantly false). Maybe you could call voters to action by saying we need to “protect our -lands-“ (stronger ring than air or water) or even better, “protect our -people- from having to live in a toxic environment”.

Post by erentz » Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 8:43 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #63

thechao wrote: post #26

Has anyone seen a good analysis on what went wrong? I found a USAToday article with a partial fragment saying that one of the wheels had a failed bearing, and this was the proximal cause of the derailment. It seems to me that (as pointed out in the article) the mean-time-to-failure increases with the length of the train; perhaps nonlinearly? I think the failure rate of bearings is proportional to the length of the tr…

We know the bearing was on fire for 20+ miles before it derailed, and it passed through at least one hotbox detector in that condition without being detected. On average, such detectors are placed every 10-20 miles. The one in East Palestine spotted the problem but it was too late to prevent the derailment. Maybe a start would be to adjust regulation such that detectors need to be placed with higher frequency. ECP is…