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My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

danlawton.substack.com

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Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#331

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

zozbot234 wrote: post #269
jcbrand wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And this is exactly why "tripping" is heavily frowned upon by serious meditators and spiritual practitioners. This is needlessly judgmental. I know life-long meditators, 30+ of years disciplined practice who sometimes take psychedelics. I'm not a fan of various aspects of the psychedelic scene, e.g. the spiritual bypassing and the narcissism that can sometimes come from it, but let's not throw the baby out with the…

> I know life-long meditators, 30+ of years disciplined practice who sometimes take psychedelics. I'm not dismissing spiritual practice, but psychedelics are entirely incidental to it and can be a snare for the unprepared mind. What's "profoundly healing and helpful" is always the spiritual part, not the means used to achieve it.

And yet "spiritual" people are at least as prone to narcissism as everyone else. IMO one of the reasons spirituality of all kinds - including both traditional and non-traditional religion - has remained so consistently popular that it provides such excellent cover for more base actions and desires.

If you've found a drama-free spiritual community where everyone is deeply chilled and yet also adult and effective without losing a sense of humour, please let me know. That really hasn't been my experience.

In fact I think mindfulness, meditation, and so on confuse a kind of metaphysics of morality with what is probably some fairly basic brain mode switching.

Being "enlightened" for a brief period does not seem to create good people with any consistency or reliability. It doesn't even create consistently happier people. (Sometimes? Yes. More reliably and safely than other activities? Very likely not.)

It does seem to remove certain existential tangles, sometimes. But rather than being about "ego" - boo, hiss - perhaps those are more to do with easy/default vs less accessible modes of emotional cognition.

And actually - that's all.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#332

Post by yamtaddle »

cutler wrote: post #133
jossclimb wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect there will be higher cases of psychosis happening on intense retreats, but as anecdotal as this, I had it happen to me (albeit not as extreme as OP) after meditating for much shorter periods (approx 10 minutes up to an hour). I really did not see it coming. For some context, I don't know of any deep seated trauma that I have and I liked to think of myself as someone robust mentally. I experienced a deep real…

“Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.” We need the mundane earthly activities to balance any inward quests.

I've always taken it to (also) mean that one ought not expect rebirth in enlightenment, or some instant transformation of one's condition and even of one's spiritual (if you will) practice. It's not like graduating from school and moving into the workforce, where you stop going to classes and your life shifts radically in a short span. One day you're not enlightened, the next you are, and... that's the whole thing, congrats, you did it, now life goes on surprisingly-similarly to how it did before.

"Oh, you're enlightened? That's nice. Now, on with what we were doing...."

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#333

Post by rattlesnakedave »

mettamage wrote: post #280
DontchaKnowit wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly you describe the shattering of your delusion as the return of your ego - I think it is the opposite. I think you invited an inflated ego into your life through your meditation : "I should become a guru and help humanity" <-- that is ego speaking. The shattering of this idea is is not ego but humility, to my way of thinking.

Favorited, I'm on a quest to be egoless as I'm finding the ego to be an issue in my day to day. It's hard to pinpoint the ego, but you did so wonderfully :)

you need some ego. otherwise you won't know where to point your fork to eat.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#334

Post by hrnnnnnn »

cutler wrote: post #133
jossclimb wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect there will be higher cases of psychosis happening on intense retreats, but as anecdotal as this, I had it happen to me (albeit not as extreme as OP) after meditating for much shorter periods (approx 10 minutes up to an hour). I really did not see it coming. For some context, I don't know of any deep seated trauma that I have and I liked to think of myself as someone robust mentally. I experienced a deep real…

“Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.” We need the mundane earthly activities to balance any inward quests.

Or the contemporary version: after enlightenment, the dishes.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#335

Post by simmanian »

If people are looking for a guided way to learn Buddhism and its practices, there is an online English course designed to introduce you to the teachings and integrate you into the community. You do have to attend virtual sessions with your camera on. Please feel free to ask me for details if this interests you.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#336

Post by zozbot234 »

mtalantikite wrote: post #328
jossclimb wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was more humouring the situation there and adding some color, but for sure, the ego is incredibly powerful and deep seated. I firmly believe what I had initially was profound, and was hijacked by the ego (and this is a very common happening to anyone on a spiritual journey of some sort).

The best book I've read on this topic is Chögyam Trungpa's "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" [1]. He's very clear in pointing out how ego tries to get involved in everything. It sounds like you may have had an experience, to some extent, of dwelling in the union of wisdom and emptiness or what some call dharmadhatu [2]. It's not a teaching I encountered until I started practicing Vajrayana, as Theravada teacher…

> ... the union of wisdom and emptiness ...

Ah, the extent that some people will go through to avoid acknowledging God. It's like some people take stubborn pleasure in being purposely nihilistic and strenuously denying all that's good about the world. How this can be part of a supposedly spiritual practice, I just can't understand.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#338

Post by haswell »

tuyiown wrote: post #185
haswell wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * the «from nowhere» really just might be the unconscious brain* The trouble is that once you start to consider the nature of the unconscious brain, such consideration leads to the same conclusion. If the unconscious brain somehow has “control”, from where does it derive this control? Unless you then accept some kind of metaphysical explanation, it’s centerlessness all the way down.

> it’s centerlessness all the way down Well I didn't meant anything else actually. I realize that the «unconscious» term is tainted, as it can represent something like a hidden part of personality, especially on Freudian literature and likes. I didn't meant that, I was thinking of the sum of the autonomous processing and coordination of the numerous intricate and distributed functions of the brain, senses, motor, emo…

That's a good clarification clarification. I misread the quoted part as trying to shift the "well" of consciousness to the unconscious brain, which really just moves the problem down one level.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#339

Post by zozbot234 »

kodah wrote: post #323
zozbot234 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Psychedelics are a tool I don't think most users of psychedelics view them as a "tool" for serious spiritual practice. They just think tripping is a lot of fun.

That's an incredibly cynical take and possibly bordering on gatekeeping based on "spiritual" boundaries. Psychedelics can be fun, but in my experience they're fun if your mind is in the right place. They act as a conduit for more deeply connecting with the world around you. On the other hand, if you have work to do then those things have a chance to appear in your trip. That can be healthy, if you're ready to face so…

> That can be healthy, if you're ready to face something, or it can be incredibly terrifying.

Yes, and there's no guarantee that your bad trip or encounter with these entities will resolve itself without major effort. That ought to be enough to be seriously concerned about whether it is in any way appropriate to endorse this as some sort of ordinary, routine practice for the uninitiated.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#340

Post by cat_plus_plus »

"The short answer is that in 2009 I started a fist fight in a French Quarter bar over some jambalaya, a steamy kiss, and a stray comment I didn’t take fondly" - the author should seriously consider the possibility that their later issues had more to do with whatever led to this episode in the first place than with meditation, which is not a magic cure all. People are not likely to think themselves in or out of psychosis, although there can be a triggering even for onset of symptoms that would emerge anyway. Better understanding of the underlying condition can lead to better treatment, likely with Western medicine and therapy, possibly also with meditation/yoga tailored to these symptoms. Relaxing is generally good for you, seeking intense experiences with one is already on edge is counterproductive.
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