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My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

danlawton.substack.com

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Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#321

Post by realce »

flycaliguy wrote: post #318
realce wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also just a mind that might be desperate for a core identity after having its last one logically dissolved through introspection. While ego can hijack identity for it's own mad desires, an identity is required for the actuation of relational actions on a basic level. With no "center" from which to make decisions, the functions of your mind tasked with making choices will panic - this is a foundation of brainwash…

Can you elaborate on your comment regarding TBI? I’m, uh, asking for a friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoiZs7QpDUY

I remember a clip I'd seen where a veteran with a TBI would break down when shopping, since there's so many choices that are focused at appealing to personality rather than utility, and his notion of his own personality was minimal.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#322

Post by detourdog »

mahathu wrote: post #302
detourdog wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I don't see that as distinguishing me from anyone else.

Experiencing psychotic breaks in your childhood distinguishes you from other people though. It is not a common experience.

These may be original thoughts conceived by an individual. If one needs third party verification for ideas read no further.

I see great similarity in childhood tantrums and psychotic breaks. I believe a more warn/mature consciousness may have a negative reaction to large shifts changes in its perceptual comprehension. There can be a number of causes for that change which may affect duration.

As for childhood psychotic breaks. I believe they are common. The undeveloped consciousness is so malleable that it is just part of perceiving and comprehending the world. As we mature we experience fewer upheavals but we also gather neuroses.

I'm surprised to have my credentials questioned on an anonymous Internet forum.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#323

Post by kodah »

zozbot234 wrote: post #301
kodah wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those probably aren't meditators I would be listening to, it sounds as unhealthy as the person that attaches their identity to their ego return. Psychedelics are a tool, and the different doses you figure out are ways of using that tool. Ego death requires a fairly heroic dose, something on the order of 3-5 grams of mushrooms for most strains. This, to me, is comparable to the isolation and introspection without brea…

> Psychedelics are a tool I don't think most users of psychedelics view them as a "tool" for serious spiritual practice. They just think tripping is a lot of fun.

That's an incredibly cynical take and possibly bordering on gatekeeping based on "spiritual" boundaries.

Psychedelics can be fun, but in my experience they're fun if your mind is in the right place. They act as a conduit for more deeply connecting with the world around you.

On the other hand, if you have work to do then those things have a chance to appear in your trip. That can be healthy, if you're ready to face something, or it can be incredibly terrifying. I've had both experiences through my own isolation and meditation before. As someone with years of trauma, including a year long stint in a war zone, I can attest that my trips were sometimes fun, almost always challenging, and sometimes terrifying. As time has gone on and I've done work to unpack my trips and connect them with my experiences and understanding when I'm sober my trips have averaged to being "more fun" and "connected". This is something I was not able to achieve with meditation alone.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#324

Post by detourdog »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #306
detourdog wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I don't see that as distinguishing me from anyone else.

Either we have different definitions of psychotic break or you're a pretty high outlier. I don't know anyone from my bipolar support group who had a psychotic break before puberty. Most of them haven't had one. I had bipolar symptoms at age 5 and severe depression at 9, but didn't have a break until I was 26.

I grew up in a dynamic environment with plenty therapy and hospitalizations. There is definitely something on my mother's side. Suffice to say that I have a lifetime of experience. I think about the human side and the philosophical side. I'm only speaking from life experience and an effort to frame and understand the issues.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#325

Post by yamtaddle »

cutler wrote: post #114

I can't help thinking that most of these examples of negative side effects are related to intensives rather than meditation/mindfulness itself. There's a world of difference between 20 minutes a day and 10 days in a retreat looking inward. Maybe it's just better for you in short bursts, not long marathons. I once experienced negative effects after joining a Buddhist meditation group while at university. Every time I…

> I would turn to meditation assuming it would help me get things done but it had the opposite effect of avoiding what I needed to face.

Marcus Aurelius—quoted from memory, so probably not quite right, and it's in translation at any rate:

> You can pass your life in a calm flow of happiness, if you learn to think the right way and to act the right way.

I personally found the "think the right way" easy to get into, but without the "act the right way" it can indeed lead to apathy, detachment, and avoidance. Whoops.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#326

Post by AlexCoventry »

Contemporary mindfulness practices are a harmful corruption of the original approach. A good book on the subject is Right Mindfulness: Memory & Ardency on the Buddhist Path[1] by Ven. Thanissaro.

> For the past several decades, a growing flood of books, articles, and teachings has advanced theories about the practice of mindfulness which are highly questionable and—for anyone hoping to realize the end of suffering—seriously misleading. The main aim of this book is to show that the practice of mindfulness is most fruitful when informed by the Buddha’s own definition of right mindfulness and his explanations of its role on the path.

[1] https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#right_mindfulne...

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#327

Post by tk17 »

I have severe panic attacks and was basically unemployable for 5 years. It’s impossible to say what happened here. I had a similar array of experiences and I still think meditation is a net positive and that these experiences are very rare. But the nocebo effect is powerful and it can be a bitch.

Meditation is probably fine. I don’t see a reason to reject the null hypothesis that it is no more dangerous than any other intense pursuit. Work and capitalism probably have 10,000x the psychiatric casualty rate. In fact, open plan offices are probably more dangerous than an LSD trip once per year (though I don’t recommend the latter except in a controlled therapeutic setting).

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#328

Post by mtalantikite »

jossclimb wrote: post #215
DontchaKnowit wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly you describe the shattering of your delusion as the return of your ego - I think it is the opposite. I think you invited an inflated ego into your life through your meditation : "I should become a guru and help humanity" <-- that is ego speaking. The shattering of this idea is is not ego but humility, to my way of thinking.

I was more humouring the situation there and adding some color, but for sure, the ego is incredibly powerful and deep seated. I firmly believe what I had initially was profound, and was hijacked by the ego (and this is a very common happening to anyone on a spiritual journey of some sort).

The best book I've read on this topic is Chögyam Trungpa's "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" [1]. He's very clear in pointing out how ego tries to get involved in everything.

It sounds like you may have had an experience, to some extent, of dwelling in the union of wisdom and emptiness or what some call dharmadhatu [2]. It's not a teaching I encountered until I started practicing Vajrayana, as Theravada teachers don't often emphasize the teachings on sunyata. It's something you'll encounter in Mahamudra and Dzogchen teachings.

[1] https://www.shambhala.com/cutting-through-spiritual-material...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmadhatu

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#330

Post by Southworth »

cutler wrote: post #133
jossclimb wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect there will be higher cases of psychosis happening on intense retreats, but as anecdotal as this, I had it happen to me (albeit not as extreme as OP) after meditating for much shorter periods (approx 10 minutes up to an hour). I really did not see it coming. For some context, I don't know of any deep seated trauma that I have and I liked to think of myself as someone robust mentally. I experienced a deep real…

“Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.” We need the mundane earthly activities to balance any inward quests.

One of my most treasured quotes. Glad to see it here.
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