Live data from Hacker News

Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

maxrozen.com

461–470 of 634 posts

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#461

I've owned an upgraded T480 since they were released, run archlinux on it. It was a decent computer, but despite having upgraded the battery to the largest possible configuration and using all the tricks in the book to maximize battery life in linux - it sucked. The reality is these Intel processors are just a big inefficient hot mess. I ended up upgrading to the 14" M1 Max, and there is literally no way you can make…

> and there is literally no way you can make a comparison of these two machines

This is such a weird thing to say.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#462

It's been 11 years since Apple first released non-upgradeable laptops. Can we get over it already? If you want a laptop that you can upgrade then don't buy an Apple. If you don't like Apple's ecosystem then don't buy an Apple. This has been the advice for over 10 years now. There's nothing new here.

Practically, I agree with you. If you don't need upgrade-ability, buy an Apple. These are the market options, choose and get on with your life.

Ideologically, I disagree with you. If we keep allowing the removal of upgrade-ability to retain a foothold in our devices, we will be worse off in the long-run. My gut says we need to keep beating the drum and taking a stand or it will be bad for our future.

But then again, I typed and wrote this on an M1 MacPro, because I've "chosen" and am "getting on with my life" like a true hypocrite.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#463
post #278
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know from extensive debugging of this issue that docker is the problem. You basically can't run docker (as of 6 months ago...I hope this will eventually be false) on an M1/M2 without causing significant heating and battery drain. Since this is the fault of the OS, maybe Asahi will eventually be the solution.

Yes, same conclusion. I wonder if people using it for writing code are running docker at all, you read so many comments on HN of how the battery life is incredible (on any thread about comparisons between any Mac and any other laptop) while in my experience a full charge Macbook Air M2 lasts about 6 hours with Docker running instead of the usual 15 it lasts when its off.

Run arm64 ubuntu in a VM and use arm64 images and it should be very fine?

I have a 256GB (with easy/cheap room for 768gb) 28c haswell-e server sitting in my basement though too. Costs like 1/3 of a macbook pro if it comes down to it.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#464
Lenovo's anti-consumer behavior makes Apple look like a charity with a perfect rating on www.charitynavigator.org.

It doesn't matter that he's running Pop!.

Strong aftermarket sales lead to value retention which drives new sales, and Lenovo's 2023 position seems to be to generate as much ewaste as possible, especially in their workstation and server lines.

Between secure boot "oopsies", rampant (and ongoing) GPL violations, constant spyware campaigns, and vendor locks for CPUs every time I see someone at a FOSS conference with a Lenovo festooned in stickers I chuckle inside because they're oiling the same machine they're raging against.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#465

Regarding Lenovo: I bought an original Macbook Air. It always worked well. As it got on to about 10 years old, I took it in to an Apple Store a couple miles from my house and asked if they could replace the battery. The battery worked pretty well, but I figured.. the machine was going strong and if they still had batteries in stock, I should grab one now and the laptop will live even longer. They replaced the battery…

I switched from a Macbook to PC laptop a few years ago. I'd say there are two rules to making that switch comfortably.

Rule #1: do a ton of research and comparison shopping to be certain you're making a good PC buy. These huge brands like Lenovo, Dell, Acer, etc churn out so many laptops, and the build quality varies wildly between them. For my process, I completely factored out most brands: absolutely no shopping for Acer, MSI, Dell, Toshiba, etc. They're just too much of a roulette, unless you know a specific model that fits your needs (like the Thinkpad!). At the time I was shopping I was only looking at Asus, Alienware and Gigabyte (not sure if they're all still good brands in 2023).

Rule #2: be able to do basic small maintenance. I ended up buying a Gigabyte laptop that's still running perfectly 5 years later, and it IS a gaming laptop with all the heat / cooling issues that implies. I've had to replace the SSD, the battery (heat degradation), didn't replace but had to oil and reseat the fans, repasted CPU / GPU, and make various software tweaks. A computer shop could do the same, just like the Genius bar, but it just makes things so much less stressful when you can do the kind of quick maintenance that Apple so strongly discourages.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#466
post #451

My experience has been that there is only two reasonable ways to buy a laptop for personal use: 1. Buy an Apple device new. 2. Buy a Lenovo Thinkpad or Dell Latitude refurb/used via their outlet stores from their business line-ups With #2, you know exactly what you're getting, but you're getting it cheap, and the parts are possible to find (e.g. eBay) to fix it yourself. With #1, you know exactly what you're getting,…

>"There is no reason anyone should ever pay full price for any non-Apple laptop, because they all make annoying trade-offs that are only acceptable when you buy them cut-rate." I buy gaming laptops from ASUS. All are solid, last forever and even though I bought those new were very reasonably priced. Other than not being paper thin I see no trade offs but I will not pay extra for thin laptop anyways. I use those as po…

I agree. In my experience, trying to balance "thin" and "gaming power" together in the same device is a recipe for disaster.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#467
post #378
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, even ThinkPad support is atrocious. It's done through some third-party resellers. Pricing is also pretty atrocious compared to the US, which is sad as there are not that many alternative laptop brands with good Linux support.

It’s fine in the UK. Not sure about mainland Europe.

Prices in Switzerland are ok, to not say cheaper than elsewhere, but support...Unless in warranty, is atrocious. They asked me to send my laptop for "diagnostic" with unknown cost when I requested how to buy the part (out of stock on their website) to replace it.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#468

Regarding Lenovo: I bought an original Macbook Air. It always worked well. As it got on to about 10 years old, I took it in to an Apple Store a couple miles from my house and asked if they could replace the battery. The battery worked pretty well, but I figured.. the machine was going strong and if they still had batteries in stock, I should grab one now and the laptop will live even longer. They replaced the battery…

>Lenovo gaming laptop

No.

Thinkpad laptop for work, gaming desktop @ home.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#469

It's been 11 years since Apple first released non-upgradeable laptops. Can we get over it already? If you want a laptop that you can upgrade then don't buy an Apple. If you don't like Apple's ecosystem then don't buy an Apple. This has been the advice for over 10 years now. There's nothing new here.

Just because Apple wants to increase their profit margins, by enforcing planned obsolescence and creating e-waste on scales that are beyond comprehension, does not mean that everyone else should just ignore it and shut up about it. It's not Apple's way or the highway, there is room for criticism and change. There are also millions of Apple customers who have no idea that Apple is actively going out of their way to en…

The vast majority of upgradeable machines are never actually upgraded. Basically no laptop can have its CPU or GPU upgraded to begin with.

Upgradability is not free. It has a weight and volume cost. Depending on implementation it can also have a performance cost - for example a user-swappable battery means a 30-40% reduction in battery capacity OR a corresponding increase in weight+volume. For another example SODIMM slots take up space and are larger than surface mount soldered DRAM chips... I mean that should be obvious right?

Conspiracy theorists are gonna see conspiracy theories.

Engineers look at ancient "luggables", imagine a future where Star Trek pads exist, then incrementally iterate reducing power consumption on 200 different individual components, shrinking the volume of 27 different assemblies, and making thousands of difficult choices - all of which has to yield a sellable product today so there will even be a chance to improve in the future. There is no magic. You can't wave your wand and make the future week-long battery life laptop that weighs nothing appear out of nowhere. Somewhere along the way you have to decide if you are going to keep the space for the extra connectors and SSD controller or if you're going to integrate everything to shave off some weight and reduce volume, along with cut power consumption by removing a single chip. The nay-sayers claim the gains are minimal for those specific changes but you can make that claim for most of the changes made along the way to get from a luggable to the modern MacBook Air. Some people really needed SCSI ports and are still angry they're gone. If everyone listened to those people laptops would have the weight of bricks and get 20 minutes on battery.

History has proven those with the engineer mindset are more likely to be successful than those with the conspiracy mindset but it's up to each person to choose.

(Of course you can also make a living filling a niche - the world is large)

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a discrete GPU? Disable it. Run TLP and powertop to see what uses too much power and to adjust tweakables.

I do not have a discrete GPU, have run TLP and Powertop and have adjusted the tweakables. Maybe it's my 1440p display.

If you use zenmonitor, what is the package power on a typical workload? It should be 2-3W maximum normally. If it's too high, it's a too common case of manufacturers setting insane tweakables, and can be remediated using amdctl/ryzenadj/zenstates (or in some BIOSes using the PBO2 setting). Otherwise, it can sometimes be a bad SSD using a lot of power.
Post reply on HN