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Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

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Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#251

Post by vladvasiliu »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #76

I also do all of my development on various ThinkPads I've owned throughout my life: T480, T490, P51.. I like cheap, upgradeable laptops over Macs since: * I can put what I want in them. I don't want to pay Apple 200 euros for 8GB of RAM. * It's not a treasure. I take care of it because it would be annoying to have to replace it, but my wallet wouldn't cry over a cheap second-hand machine * They run Linux well * My P5…

> I literally don't see an advantage to owning a M1 besides better resolution (why people want a trillion pixels on their screen I don't get also. I can see perfectly fine without 4K) and build quality.

I don't know how the TP screens look, but for me, I'd want a mac because text looks much, much better than on my laptop.

Note that I'm comparing an almost 10 yo MBP (late 2013 15" retina) to a late 2021 HP. The latter's colors and viewing angles are comically bad, but even leaving that aside, text is not as sharp as on the MBP. And actually, shitty colors do make it less comfortable in the long run. I have to pump up the contrast on screen elements to tell them apart. Plus, the current trend of ulta-skinny fonts doesn't help either, and produces an ungodly rainbowy mess, especially on darker backgrounds.

And don't even get me started on that HP's cousin, an almost 2000 € computer (with middle of the road specs, not some ridiculously specced beast) that has a 6 bit panel, and is basically unable to display darker oranges.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#252

Post by blensor »

prvc wrote: post #92
ostenning wrote: post #20

I've owned an upgraded T480 since they were released, run archlinux on it. It was a decent computer, but despite having upgraded the battery to the largest possible configuration and using all the tricks in the book to maximize battery life in linux - it sucked. The reality is these Intel processors are just a big inefficient hot mess. I ended up upgrading to the 14" M1 Max, and there is literally no way you can make…

Trackpoint? Keyboard quality? Linux support for most/all components and features? Easily salvage data if some other part fails or is physically damaged by removing the SSD? Price and availability of replacement parts?

I can not speak about how it would work with an MBP but the SSD replacing is a huge factor if you need it.

4 weeks ago we had to deliver a build of our game to Meta and 2 days before the deadline my laptop died out of the blue. I scrambled to buy a new one (didn't care which as long as it had enough oomph and I could source locally quickly).

I went for a Lenovo Legion 5 ( or 7, I am actually not sure, it doesn't have a sticker on it and I don't have the box anymore :) )

First thing I did was void the warranty by popping it open, installing the ssd from the other laptop and 30 minutes after unpacking the whole thing I continued working where I left off when the other one broke ( not literally since it was not suspended to disk but you get the meaning)

The machine is actually quite nice and I am, so far, happy with it, but the whole experience was so incredibly easy that I would not want to go for any non linux machine.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#253

Post by eappleby »

kuschku wrote: post #54
ostenning wrote: post #20

I've owned an upgraded T480 since they were released, run archlinux on it. It was a decent computer, but despite having upgraded the battery to the largest possible configuration and using all the tricks in the book to maximize battery life in linux - it sucked. The reality is these Intel processors are just a big inefficient hot mess. I ended up upgrading to the 14" M1 Max, and there is literally no way you can make…

> screen quality > battery life > speakers > trackpad All things you can replace with the T480. Which I've done, and can just recommend. There's much better options than the ones shipped by default, including trackpads rivalling the M1, a screen that beats the M1, and a battery that has 20h+ capacity and can be swapped with a second one to double the capacity in seconds.

I’ve used T series Thinkpads for years (mostly to mimic the environment of most of my clients), there are definitely better computers out there if you plan to swap out most of the parts. https://frame.work/

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#254

Post by kuschku »

eappleby wrote: post #253
kuschku wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> screen quality > battery life > speakers > trackpad All things you can replace with the T480. Which I've done, and can just recommend. There's much better options than the ones shipped by default, including trackpads rivalling the M1, a screen that beats the M1, and a battery that has 20h+ capacity and can be swapped with a second one to double the capacity in seconds.

I’ve used T series Thinkpads for years (mostly to mimic the environment of most of my clients), there are definitely better computers out there if you plan to swap out most of the parts. https://frame.work/

Tbh, if I could put the framework's AMD motherboard in my T470, that'd be amazing. I love the thinkpad keyboard, I enjoy the X1E glass touchpad, the T14 Gen2 screen is amazing, my battery life is 13h of work in IDEA, and I got all of it combined for less than 600$.

But I really dislike the hardware of the framework :/

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#255

Post by kuschku »

ihateolives wrote: post #245
kuschku wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to a) have a huge external device connected all the time, b) destroy your battery with constant charge cycles so badly that you need to replace it every few months, and c) want to be unable to charge other devices from your laptop.

> c) want to be unable to charge other devices from your laptop. You just charge them with battery pack.

The whole point of a laptop is that I can use it on my lap, on public transit. That's not possible with your recommendation.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#256

Post by phist_mcgee »

jeroenhd wrote: post #232
thom wrote: post #17

I too don’t value my time very highly.

Depends on how valuable you think your time is. Benefits of not going Apple include not having to figure out which Docker containers are compatible or fast enough on your new hardware, not having to deal with macOS, not having to upgrade the entire machine when components fail or when you run into SKU limits. The author says he lives in Europe, taking the laptop out fir repairs can easily take an entire afternoon of…

>The author says he lives in Europe, taking the laptop out fir repairs can easily take an entire afternoon of travel that could be spent more productively elsewhere.

I'm not sure if you understand how urbanised Europe is.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#257

Post by phist_mcgee »

ewf322333rrr wrote: post #240
weego wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok here's the thing. I used to build PCs, and I'd tinker with linux distros on laptops. Things would be flakey, need maintenance and upgrading and that was fun. That's fine when you're laser focused on your career and are in 'career as personality' part of your life, which is essential imo and I'm not sneering at it by making reference to it in that way. But ultimately, I now need to get to my desk just on time, know…

and on mac nothing works: - worst window management than on any other OS - mouse scrolling works in a different direction and requires additional software to be fixed. - unlike windows, cannot even connect to Android without some additional software to copy pictures. - docker is extremely slow - my M1 already crashed 4 times in the last 6 months since I started using it - worse than any other OS/hardware. - poor mult…

> mouse scrolling works in a different direction and requires additional software to be fixed

You can change that in system preferences easily with a checkbox.

> non-standard keyboard shortcuts. All other OSes use the same shortcuts.

You could also argue that these shortcuts are standard to apple computers for decades and so are standard for their ecosystem.

Not disagreeing with most of your points, but thought i'd just point those out.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#258

Post by seszett »

LtWorf wrote: post #241
kdtsh wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a 2012 MacBook Air which I bought second hand (maybe third or fourth hand, or more?) for $300 a couple years ago. The hinge is floppy probably due to being dropped several times, the FaceTime is busted, I replaced the battery but it still runs out in less than 2 hours, and I don't think macOS even gets security patches for the version it's running - but install Linux and it's _fine_, plus it's tiny. I could…

Basically it's unusable but it still turns on? Is this what apple users consider as "durability"?

To add a counterpoint, my Macbook Air from 2011 (model A1370 IIRC) running Linux is totally usable and I do use it as a daily driver (well, not daily but I use it on the days when I need a small laptop, which is several days a week). I suppose macOS cannot be upgraded on it anymore but I never liked macOS and never really used it.

I replaced its battery three times now, and the fracking awful magsafe 1 cable countless times, but other than that everything works, including the camera, and I took enough care of it that it's basically as good as new. The hinge is a bit weak indeed, but it's only noticeable when I'd like to almost close it without totally closing it. I think it's acceptable for a 12 year old computer. It runs about four hours under Linux on a 4680 mAh battery.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#259

Post by ghc »

niclo wrote: post #186
arcticbull wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MBP doesn't have a trackpoint. Still can't run Linux as well, lacks USB A so still requires constant dongles despite improved port selection. I've never wanted a nipple mouse, but to each their own and I know some people love them. What I have wanted is a giant 6" diagonal multi-touch trackpad. Linux is very much a non-goal for me, and if I want to, I can always SSH into a remote instance or run a VM. I don't miss…

> You will not find the same on an M1/2. In fact I'm not sure it even warms up? My M2 does quite regularly with only Chrome, Slack, VS Code and a few docker containers running.

I know from extensive debugging of this issue that docker is the problem. You basically can't run docker (as of 6 months ago...I hope this will eventually be false) on an M1/M2 without causing significant heating and battery drain. Since this is the fault of the OS, maybe Asahi will eventually be the solution.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#260

Post by kaba0 »

karteum wrote: post #230
seszett wrote: post #26

I'm still not sure why. The section doesn't really answer the actual question. It's cheaper, good enough, replacement parts are cheap, and I understand that argument; I myself use alternatively some kind of very old Thinkpad (that I don't remember the specs of), a 2011 Macbook Air, or a recent Macbook M1 and for what I do with them (little more than running Firefox and ssh) the only difference that matters in practic…

> But replacing a Macbook M1 with a Thinkpad only makes sense if the Thinkpad is better in some aspects, not if it's just good enough. Otherwise you would just keep your somewhat better laptop and replace it later if you ever have to, right? Being able to remove the SSD (to recover data), to easily replace parts and repair the computer (especially when travelling a lot), to keep control and ensure a long-tife to your…

To be fair, it’s not like thinkpads would get that “up-to-date software” ever - their intel CPUs are full of throttling bugs and there are plenty of unanswered forum posts left with hacks like a python script going on every other second fixing the issue..
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