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Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

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Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#211

Post by mxkopy »

peyton wrote: post #181
dajtxx wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skill trumping credentials and connections has not been my experience in a 35 year career. The gatekeeping by recruiters and HR departments is extreme - until I got my CS degree a couple of years ago I could not get interviews anywhere, despite the fact I'd never been sacked from a job and was always one of the best coders in my teams with the broadest range of experience. I lucked out many years ago on getting an in…

I would not call a degree requirement extreme gatekeeping.

When your hire can prove your algorithm runs in O(1) amortized time but has trouble setting up ssh and always commits to master, and you turn down a candidate who got stumped on rederiving Bellman-Ford but maintains several projects, I'd say that's gatekeeping

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#212

Post by groby_b »

marcusverus wrote: post #101
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

It's hard to imagine such an organization working out over the long term. The incentives are all wonky! The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain. I for one can't think of a less attractive idea than taking a product idea that I love and turning ownership and creative control over to a group of strangers. And that's probably why these things are so r…

Have you actually ever seen a co-op work?

> why not retain creative control of your ideas and make millions at the same time?

Because there are (a lot!) of people who are more interested in an equitable work than extracting fortunes for themselves.

Because you "make millions" on the backs of the people you string along, and not everybody wants that.

> Horray, effective altruism! You mean the thing that allows you to ignore any current problem in favor of pretend problems a hundred years out? And conveniently includes making yourself rich, which is of course only happening to fix said pretend problem. And, well, your life really pleasant on the backs of others, but that's a rounding error.

> Meanwhile, if you start a software co-op... who exactly are you helping? One option here is helping an industry that's currently setting itself up for a marvellous collapse because it treats open source as an opportunity to extract only. (Until the maintainers give up, and then there'll wailing and gnashing of teeth)

Another side is helping people live a more sustainable live. There's nothing wrong with a co-op to e.g. ensure health care and pensions. While working reasonable hours.

Could this fail? Probably. Maybe even likely, because co-op folks tend to be a bit more idealist, which makes business survival a bit harder.

But let's not pretend there aren't a lot of people who wouldn't be willing to join a co-op, or that it generates absolutely no benefit.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#213

Post by robertlagrant »

NetOpWibby wrote: post #207
whatshisface wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve was never actually flat, they always had a corporate wing setting payscales and directing the company. It's a common misconception, partly brought about by their recruitment marketing.

That's some great marketing. I never applied to work there, I just assumed "now that's how you run a company!"

It didn't really make sense to me. How did you imagine any decisions working?

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#214

Post by nomel »

asveikau wrote: post #154
dzikimarian wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tons of very proficient people are simply not interested in responsibility that comes with flat structure. Because of that such company will either stay small (probably leaving ambitious people with unfulfilled ambitions) or change along the way, because you simply will not find enough people to make it grow.

Many ambitious people thrive in a flat environment, though. That's one reason some people like startups. It's been a few years since I pondered this, but I used to spend a lot of time thinking on this subject. I think for it to be successful you need a lot of the type of person that prefers to work in such an environment, and to make effort to keep it that way. That might mean staying small staffed, but I'm not total…

A good boss is a BS shield, that enhances productivity. I enjoyed startups when I was younger, but now I like to be focused. Fighting fires for a living can result in broad experience, but also less deep work, which can “stunt growth”. At least that’s my opinion/experience. They were also the most fulfilling, that completely disappeared 8 years of my life.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#215

Post by janalsncm »

harshalizee wrote: post #43
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

I always thought having a "guild" like Hollywood does or something similar would be a great boon to empower tech workers. Of course, it wouldn't be 1:1 mapping, but a collective tech union-like open institution would go far in leveraging against hostile employers. CEOs get golden parachutes on signing. It's time tech workers start demanding what their exit package looks like in case of layoffs/reductions against thei…

The biggest barrier to unionizing in tech is immigration. A union is able to collectively bargain by restricting labor supply. If outside workers are able to work the same job, the biggest weapon a union has is taken away.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#216

Post by whatshisface »

robertlagrant wrote: post #213
NetOpWibby wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's some great marketing. I never applied to work there, I just assumed "now that's how you run a company!"

It didn't really make sense to me. How did you imagine any decisions working?

For technical stuff it works okay, because people can make decisions just by doing whatever it is, or by talking to the team and agreeing on something. It's a lot harder to get people to do that for bonuses and pay.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#219

Post by BaculumMeumEst »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

they could call themselves the Loper Formers

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#220

Post by schience »

Wow.. I didn't expect this many comments.. the amazing extended discussion about software collectives and communities.

Some things that looks in the neighborhood is #openforwork, Quorom1, Loomio, and the discord posted here https://discord.gg/TyQfcSZk

But I was looking for a simple meetup organized in San Francisco, and perhaps an online forum/discussion area. No business model, no guild.. just community. Would others join?

I've already committed the ultimate sin: registered a domain: openforwork.community. Nothing there yet.

To keep the good discussion juice going - what do you recommend for a forum? Last one I installed was Discourse. I think these days a slack/discord channel is what new communities do.. but..I'm old.. and a place on the internet with its own domain could work for this.

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