161–170 of 342 posts
Related question: are any actual software engineers getting laid off or is it just support/admin/management who work in the tech sector? (I have been dealing with consulting contracts for software engineers lately, and was surprised to see that hourly rates are significantly higher than they were 5 years ago)
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I always thought having a "guild" like Hollywood does or something similar would be a great boon to empower tech workers. Of course, it wouldn't be 1:1 mapping, but a collective tech union-like open institution would go far in leveraging against hostile employers. CEOs get golden parachutes on signing. It's time tech workers start demanding what their exit package looks like in case of layoffs/reductions against thei…
Like quite a lot of guilds and unions, the actor's guild started out by defending workers rights against a restrictive system (in that case, the Hollywood studio system) but has evolved into a gatekeeping and rent-seeking organization that primarily enriches its senior members and hurts everyone else. We really, really don't want that in tech. Tech is one of the few segments of the economy where skill trumps credenti…
The gatekeeping by recruiters and HR departments is extreme - until I got my CS degree a couple of years ago I could not get interviews anywhere, despite the fact I'd never been sacked from a job and was always one of the best coders in my teams with the broadest range of experience.
I lucked out many years ago on getting an interesting job but that job went through a series of acquisitions and after a while I kept trying to get out but couldn't get interviewed anywhere.
Then I finally get a degree and get a job made with a contact while doing that and all of a sudden a few years later I can at least get to the first round of interviews.
Software development is in no way a meritocracy, and companies see us as interchangeable components with very little intrinsic value as SV workers are finding out in droves.
Software developers are essentially the blue collar workers of the 21st century. We are the modern fitters and turners. Highly skilled in some cases, but not valued.
It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…
> We all know what products companies/individuals would pay for, because we used to build/buy them. Why wouldn't the traditional approach of starting a company to sell those things work? Co-ops have never been a successful software business model. Not even once that I can think of. That model seems to work ok for open source, but since you are talking about building things people will pay for, I'm not seeing how it w…
Igalia is a co-op of software developers. Seems to work well for them.
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The people investing are the workers, and (I am including all co-ops here, not just the one that we're discussing) sometimes the customers.
So this model only works if the laid-off employees can self-fund the new company, right? and they can afford to lose the invested capital if the startup fails?
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> The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain. How do you think co-ops work? Are you imagining a flat organizational structure like Valve Software? An open source project plus invoices? Those are all interesting ideas, but co-ops presently work like employee-owned business and usually have managers and compensation structures that fit the obvious way t…
Interesting fact - valve no longer works this way because it didn't work.
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That scene was based on an actual historical village communities, such as those in Castile, and the later medieval conflict between the historically self-governing communities and the centralized order that had previously tolerated them: https://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/220237/1/06_Communit...
It's amazing how much better media inspired by history is when it's based on real history and not the mythologized version. I noticed this recently rewatching the Pirates of the Carribean series (mythologized), then Black Sails (closer to reality, especially after season 2 when the showrunner read some current literature on pirates). It turns out a lot of pirate ships were democracies, they were often pro-abolition a…
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The co-op makes and offer, and I guess you'd negotiate, then accept it if they offered enough. Voting shares would be a major part of your compensation like with most companies. You might offer them a premium because you'd expect to be exempt from industry-wide anti-labor actions like the recent layoffs and those old anti-poaching agreements, but that would be for you to decide.
Makes sense. I suppose that may be enticing for some. I just don't know how many people would sign up for it when there's tons of companies dangling RSUs and insane bonuses or the opportunity to do a startup and get acquired. I would wish this theoretical structure luck though.
It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…
> We all know what products companies/individuals would pay for, because we used to build/buy them. Why wouldn't the traditional approach of starting a company to sell those things work? Co-ops have never been a successful software business model. Not even once that I can think of. That model seems to work ok for open source, but since you are talking about building things people will pay for, I'm not seeing how it w…
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> How would non-compete, confidentially clause contracts when when you work for yourself? You sign them with the co-op as the other party, same as any other business.
But are they ethically or morally correct clauses to have in a contract? I know lawyers let you put WTF into business contracts because its a business to business contract anything goes, but business to human contracts are different and this is what amazes me about the ethical nature of lawyers & law firms knowing some of those lawyers will go on to become judges of all things. Been There, Seen it, Done it!
In industries where they really care about trade secrets but are also dealing with people who know how to negotiate, you see a lot of contracts where you get paid your full salary for say a year to sit at home and do nothing, as compensation for not working for a competitor during that time.
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> I always thought having a "guild" like Hollywood does or something similar would be a great boon to empower tech workers. Maybe. But remember that the Hollywood guild system also acts as gatekeepers keeping people out of the system.
Software development has arguably more gatekeeping even without any guild. Got a CS degree from a university that isn't R1 and didn't score a summer internship? Need a visa sponsor? I don't envy how painful your early career will be. Luck out with the Stanford admission and a summer internship? You are playing on easy mode.
Software is the high paying industry with the least gatekeeping I'm aware of.
I never got around to finish my degree. Neither did Bill Gates. I've worked with highschool dropouts and Harvard graduates. And by and large, nobody cares!