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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#281

Post by mlindner »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #227
amm wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's your source for good cost of launching satellite communication networks? - falcon 9 - $2700/kg - falcon heavy - $1400/kg - ariane 5 - $9000/kg > If the current one works - why would they? This is just low quality flame bait. If any of the before-mentioned (US) companies succeed commercially long-term, they will transform world-wide internet access especially in less developed countries. For clarification: as…

Falcon 9 Success Rate - 173 / 184 (94%) - Most of it LEO Falcon 9 Max Payload - 22 tons LEO, 8 tons GTO when all the conditions perfectly align and then it still kinda sucks. Falcon Heavy Success Rate - 5 / 5 (100%) - No track record Falcon Heavy Max Payload - 83 tons LEO, 26 tons GTO Ariane 5 Success Rate - 110/115 (95.7%) - 7 to 10 tons GTO, Most of it GTO Falcon Heavy's cost is still theoretical, when it has barel…

This is one of the most confused takes on EU launch that I've ever seen.

Your Falcon 9 success numbers are completely incorrect. The success rate is 100% on current models and overall having only 1 launch failure (or 2 if you count a pre-launch failure).

Falcon 9 launches primarily to LEO because that is where the market is. There are just very few satellites that want to go to GTO, but those that do generally launch on Falcon 9. It's launch costs are substantially less than Ariane 5, to the point that Arianespace is now thinking of rushing Ariane 6 to end of life sooner than planned to focus on a future reusable vehicle.

Falcon Heavy was primarily designed for the US DoD as it's primary customer.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#282

Post by dotnet00 »

concordDance wrote: post #44

Does it annoy anyone else that the title says "Musk's Starlink"? Yes, it was his idea and he is the main driving force and owns half of the company, but any project like this is a collaborative effort between tens of thousands of people.

Yeah, it's always weird to see. I get that it's probably SEO related, still seems so dumb. Even ignoring the contribution of the employees, it's just a weird way to phrase it. Especially in articles like these, since the EU isn't doing this in response to Musk specifically owning Starlink, it's doing it in response to Starlink not being European.

The other day I saw an article referring to Twitter as "Musk's Twitter" which was even weirder because IIRC none of the content of the article was actually about Musk.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#283

Post by alright_scowl »

briantakita wrote: post #273
alright_scowl wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying I gave up freedoms to state/bureaucracy? Which freedoms did I give up, exactly?

[flagged]

> There are many concerns about giving a centralized authority more power

> Also, since the EU is a vassal of Pax Americana

So the problem is giving a centralized authority (EU) more power. At the same time the EU is a vassal of the US (Pax America, which is a fairly ridiculous notion in and of itself).

I can only conclude from the horrible word salad you gave me that individual member states without the EU would also be vassals of the US, which is itself a centralized power. So the EU existence, following your logic, is inconsequential.

Your thoughts were mildly entertaining to parse through. Sorry for not giving credence to your thoughts beyond mere entertainment however.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#284

Post by briantakita »

alright_scowl wrote: post #283
briantakita wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> There are many concerns about giving a centralized authority more power > Also, since the EU is a vassal of Pax Americana So the problem is giving a centralized authority (EU) more power. At the same time the EU is a vassal of the US (Pax America, which is a fairly ridiculous notion in and of itself). I can only conclude from the horrible word salad you gave me that individual member states without the EU would als…

> EU is a vassal of the US (Pax America, which is a fairly ridiculous notion in and of itself).

You don't believe me? Perhaps Pax Americana needs to blow up another one of Europe's oil pipelines to remind you...

I wonder how long the sycophantic politicians can keep up the act before the freezing & unemployed citizens notice.

Here's a word of advice though, don't give the Nazis too many weapons. It may end up in a bad situation. They may hate Putin today, but tomorrow their prerogatives may change...

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#285

Post by rtkwe »

deeviant wrote: post #216
RedShift1 wrote: post #30

I don't like putting more junk into LEO than we absolutely have to because it disrupts our space telescopes (which the EU has also invested over 1 billion euro in). I much rather have the funding go to improving land based internet infrastructure.

I'm a very big fan of astronomy, but I can't seem to care at all about satellites blocking terrestrial telescopes. Ubiquitous connectivity is simply a larger concern than land based telescopes. Further, space based telescopes seem to be the future of the discipline. While land based radio telescopes are less effected by satellites. A bigger concern is Kepler syndrome, but that threat seems minimal in LEO.

Land based will have an important role to play for a long time simply because we can easily service, upgrade and design new experiments for them which for a long time isn't going to be easy for space telescopes.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#286

Post by TheNotToo »

hkt wrote: post #252
988747 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the EU, understand how it works, and that's why I hate it, and I want my country out of it ASAP :)

As a British person, I'd suggest you reconsider. Things over here are not so rosy. Drugs shortages, crazy inflation, no discernible benefits at all except to a government that hates judicial oversight of any kind.

Can you share more about this 'drug shortage'? Is it like the empty shop shelves and empty fuel pumps that is claimed to still exist for years now despite being resolved within days/weeks at the time?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#287

Post by TheNotToo »

weberer wrote: post #276
dageshi wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think inflation in the EU is roughly at the same level as the UK right now. edit: apparently this is a controversial statement

Its actually higher than in the UK. https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?con...

I see Sweden the "utopia" that some claim has even higher inflation than UK, I guess that must be because of Brexit too right? And Italy, the land of the great food?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#288

Post by dminik »

pxmpxm wrote: post #191
j_san wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm european and dont like thousands of satelites swirrling around in the sky as well but I'd rather have government-founded satelites for the public benefit than from some way-too-rich sociopath's private company. Of course - this project would probably not exist without Starlink, so credit where credit is due. Personally I find it quite sad that we're destroying the night sky in the sense that before these projects…

> some way-too-rich sociopath's private company. I am certainly you've developed this view in November of 2022. Meanwhile any European stuck with DSL - which would be most of my family - would be ecstatic to get sensible bandwidth today.

There's a few comments in this thread from self proclaimed Europeans, but this one is the weirdest. The internet infrastructure here is great. I haven't seen a sub 10mbps offering in years (with 100mbps being fairly common). The only spotty places are small villages (which is a rather common theme everywhere). Europeans aren't stuck with DSL.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#289

Post by permo-w »

alright_scowl wrote: post #248
permo-w wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is that odd? it doesn’t seem surprising to me that Americans would think USA good EU bad

Forgive me for not taking their opinion about an economic block that they don't seem to understand and that their country doesn't belong to very seriously.

if I was suggesting that they're right to criticise the EU, I would have said that. what I was suggesting was that "America number 1, everyone else turds" is an extremely normal and expected attitude for a lot of Americans, and not something that I would describe as "odd". you seem to have read it differently

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#290

Post by runlaszlorun »

This is probably something that the US (or other major powers) should really think about doing too.

Military tactics and capabilities have generally been driven by communications capabilities. For example, radio communication technology was at least as important as the tank in for the German blitzkrieg. This becomes all the more important with drones, etc.

I just punched up some quick numbers to make sure I’m not talking out of my ass and it looks like getting to the 12,000 satellites Starlink initially stated is approx $3.6 billion in total over the years. This is in comparison to the nearly $2 trillion annual defense budget. Or in comparison, I believe the military spent $15 billion on a software defined radio project that I believe never produced a single product.

Sure, I get it that big government isn’t synonymous with innovation. But relying on the whims of these increasingly questionable billionaires for something like global internet prob isn’t a great idea.

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