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I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

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Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#241

Post by demigod »

Anderkent wrote: post #223
jebblue wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> When does the act of stealing occur? If I download a torrent and then delete it without watching/playing/listening, did I steal it? Yes, welcome to adulthood.

If I write random bits to a file and it turns out to be a Star Wars movie, did I steal it?

No you didnt if you made up the bits, wrote them, and didnt copy off from a star wars DVD, and in real world once you have written the bits there is no way to know whether you copied it or wrote it by yourself so we compare it with the original and if there is an overbearing similarity then it is considered as piracy or stealing.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#242

Post by Karunamon »

gergles wrote: post #183
Karunamon wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because I'd find the appropriated information used somewhere. It's been at least 5 years with not a hint of fraudulent use of my ID or payment info. I have, however, been victimized multiple times by corporations being negligent with my data in the same time period. Sony and whatnot. Kind of interesting that it's safer to download random untrusted OS code from the internet than to give my information to a "s…

Even if you wrote the compiler by hand, it doesn't matter. See the outstanding "Reflections on Trusting Trust": http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html

Haha! Believe it or not, I had that story in mind when writing the previous comment. Really the only way to be 100% sure is to manually "bit bash" the compiler together without using ANOTHER compiler (like you would do if you're building a toolset for an entirely new architecture).

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#243

Post by Karunamon »

reissbaker wrote: post #201
joshma wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's equivalent in an ethical sense, not equivalent in the legal sense. I think it's perfectly fine to call it stealing, since it embodies the core meaning "steal" is meant to convey. You're depriving another of something that is rightfully theirs, control over their creative content. Let's not get pedantic here, lest we devolve into discussing what "to steal the spotlight" means.

"Stealing" generally connotes taking something away from someone else. With piracy, a potential sale is lost: the pirate might have bought the item were it not available illegally for free. With theft, there is both potential sale loss and property loss: if you steal a car from Toyota, they lose the ability to sell the car to you, and they also lose access to the car itself (which prevents them from selling it to any…

Would you mind if I copied your comment (with attribution and link) verbatim on my blog? I've never seen this line of reasoning before, complete with math :)

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#244

Post by Karunamon »

Drbble wrote: post #174
sanderjd wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you link to that decision or do you perhaps know the name of the case so I could search for it? The deprivation idea doesn't seem to be intuitive to most people I've talked with and it would be great to know the actual case law.

You are honestly arguing that deprivation is not an intuitive aspect of theft?

Nono.. Quite the opposite, deprivation is key to what "theft" entails. If I haven't deprived you of an object, I haven't stolen anything. I might have copied it, used it without your permission, or infringed your copyright, or pirated, but I haven't stolen it.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#245

Post by Karunamon »

ryandvm wrote: post #186
Karunamon wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless he took a physical copy off of a shelf somewhere, he didn't steal anything. Pirated, ripped, copied, used without paying for, there are about 20 possible verbs to describe the act of using software without purchasing a license. Stealing is not one of them. I know I'm beating this horse fairly hard, but it's something that people need to be aware of.

Meh. When I create software and someone "takes away" my ability to earn income from it, it feels like stealing. The "IP infringement is not stealing" line is just what people say when they want something for nothing and they don't want to feel bad about inflicting financial damage upon the original author.

> The "IP infringement is not stealing" line is just what people say when they want something for nothing and they don't want to feel bad about inflicting financial damage upon the original author.

That doesn't make any sense. I don't think anybody is seriously arguing in this thread that copyright infringement is correct or ethical - what we're instead arguing is that, despite the best efforts of the *AA groups, "stealing" is a different crime than "copying without permission". The fact that there's a supreme court case backing this line of reasoning up (in plain language, no less) makes this conflation of terms even less forgivable.

Call the crime what it is.

>When I create software and someone "takes away" my ability to earn income from it..

Except if I copy something of yours without permission, I haven't taken away your ability to do anything. And I challenge you to prove otherwise.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#246

Post by Karunamon »

JonWood wrote: post #233
ColMustard wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Adulthood has nothing to do with the fact that everyone is using a word that doesn't accurately describe the action taken. Just because it's not stealing doesn't mean it's not illegal. You can't call anything that's illegal "stealing". It's piracy, which is illegal, but a different act than stealing. People who started calling piracy stealing are the same people that cannot accurately understand what is actually…

I love that you have a problem with people calling copyright infringement "stealing", but no qualms at all about calling it "piracy" instead, which is an entirely different affair. Certainly the last time I downloaded a TV program I did using BitTorrent, rather than boarding the content producer's boat and taking it with force.

>I love that you have a problem with people calling copyright infringement "stealing", but no qualms at all about calling it "piracy" instead, which is an entirely different affair.

Pirate, verb, sense 3:

  The unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work     - to pirate software
Steal, from the dictionary, first and only sense as a verb:

  Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: "thieves stole her bicycle".
This is not that difficult to understand.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#247

Post by Karunamon »

demigod wrote: post #240
Karunamon wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minor niggle, but please stop misusing "steal". We need to get that meme killed.

You cant be blind to this, Piracy is different from stealing, but it is analogous and so the meme. When you physically steal something from a store, the store faces a loss of value and that is why it is illegal. Information is not valued in the same way as other goods and sometimes the value is lost when a copy is made even though the original is not damaged in any way. Its like the secret treasure map which has the…

> sometimes the value is lost when a copy is made even though the original is not damaged in any way.

The one and only time this is true is when something is pirated pre-release, thereby causing an actual financial impact to the rightful owner. You'll also find that there are court cases backing this line of reasoning up.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#248

Post by ilitirit »

I've got several legitimate Windows licenses. I tried to install it on my dad's computer but I had to leave before the installation completed. I returned a few days later to activate it but somehow a virus managed to infect it. I removed the virus, but Windows just refused to activate with a LEGAL KEY. I tried activating by phone and I received an activation key but it didn't work either (permissions error or something). So I just did the sensible thing and installed a version that I found on TPB.

Seriously Microsoft, drop the activation scheme. It's not necessary and causes nothing but frustration for your end users.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#249

Post by [deleted] »

Karunamon wrote: post #245
ryandvm wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. When I create software and someone "takes away" my ability to earn income from it, it feels like stealing. The "IP infringement is not stealing" line is just what people say when they want something for nothing and they don't want to feel bad about inflicting financial damage upon the original author.

> The "IP infringement is not stealing" line is just what people say when they want something for nothing and they don't want to feel bad about inflicting financial damage upon the original author. That doesn't make any sense. I don't think anybody is seriously arguing in this thread that copyright infringement is correct or ethical - what we're instead arguing is that, despite the best efforts of the *AA groups, "st…

[deleted]

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#250

Post by steder »

I think the author is missing the point. Microsoft doesn't really care about the license fee. Your lifetime value to them as a consumer of Windows specific services, digital media, and software is much more valuable than the license fees you'll pay.

On a related note why bother to use Windows if you don't plan on purchasing other Windows-only software? Is the author also planning to pirate Visual Studio and the like as well? If no Microsoft software is being used why not try Linux or Mac?

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