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I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

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Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#221

Post by Kliment »

rickyc091 wrote: post #62
joebadmo wrote: post #4

While I'm entirely sympathetic to the author's DRM plight, buying the software and getting the pirate's cleaner experience are not mutually exclusive. If you want the best experience and a clean conscience (I'm assuming here you think piracy is wrong, since you've bought so many other copies of MS software), buy the software, then install a pirated a copy. I usually do this with new PCs that have Windows pre-installe…

"Buy the software, then install a pirated a copy." Unethical, probably, but sometimes that solution is easier than dealing with MSFT's support. A friend of mine purchased a copy of MSFT Office 2011, but it wouldn't work. He called the support several times and they couldn't offer him a solution so he finally gave up and decided to just pirate it. Ten minutes later he had a working copy of office 2011 on his machine.

Why unethical? I don't think it's unethical at all. Not sure if it's an EULA violation, but it's probably legal, and certainly ethical.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#222

Post by ColMustard »

jebblue wrote: post #189
vectorpush wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were the same thing, then that would mean downloading a copy of Star Wars is equivalent to pocketing the Star Wars DVD in your entertainment center. When does the act of stealing occur? If I download a torrent and then delete it without watching/playing/listening, did I steal it? If so, then does that mean repeatedly copying the file to and from an external hard drive is repeated theft? Does it become stealin…

>> When does the act of stealing occur? If I download a torrent and then delete it without watching/playing/listening, did I steal it? Yes, welcome to adulthood.

No. Adulthood has nothing to do with the fact that everyone is using a word that doesn't accurately describe the action taken.

Just because it's not stealing doesn't mean it's not illegal. You can't call anything that's illegal "stealing". It's piracy, which is illegal, but a different act than stealing.

People who started calling piracy stealing are the same people that cannot accurately understand what is actually happening, and people who benefit from calling it stealing instead of correctly portraiting it as it's own crime.

The desensitized image of piracy that people have is somewhat close to the way some people have a desensitized image of credit card fraud. The image that you're hurting a faceless corporation, and not an actual person. Introducing the moral part in an action that doesn't accurately portray a victim is the hard part. When stealing it's easy because you can relate and imagine the victim of an action.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#223

Post by Anderkent »

jebblue wrote: post #189
vectorpush wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were the same thing, then that would mean downloading a copy of Star Wars is equivalent to pocketing the Star Wars DVD in your entertainment center. When does the act of stealing occur? If I download a torrent and then delete it without watching/playing/listening, did I steal it? If so, then does that mean repeatedly copying the file to and from an external hard drive is repeated theft? Does it become stealin…

>> When does the act of stealing occur? If I download a torrent and then delete it without watching/playing/listening, did I steal it? Yes, welcome to adulthood.

If I write random bits to a file and it turns out to be a Star Wars movie, did I steal it?

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#224

Post by Anderkent »

jebblue wrote: post #190
Karunamon wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crux of the matter is that "steal" implies you've deprived the owner of something. (Actually, the us supreme court ruled on this a long while ago and clearly delineated the two..) The only reason for the tap on the shoulder is the effort by the industry groups to get people to conflate the two things. I hate seeing people be tricked, especially by such an odious organization :)

>> The crux of the matter is that "steal" implies you've deprived the owner of something. Yes, earnings. When you grow up you will need to work and earn money and pay bills and balance a checkbook and without "piracy" (meaning stealing) controls, your Internet usage will be even higher than mine as you grow older.

I decided not buy a coffee this morning. I've deprived the owner of his potential earnings! Must be stealing.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#225

Post by hrktb »

xist wrote: post #156
hrktb wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not, at least not for every version. I didn't have to use windows for a very long time, and about a month ago I installed a windows XP SP3 in a virtual machine. The grace period ended a few days ago: - the automatic activation failed - my product key is said to have been pirated - the phone support for registration is now fully automated, and just rejects my phone activation. - the machine won't load whole s…

It sounds like the problem stems from the 2 things: 1.) the media you installed from was not legit 2.) Windows gives you notices that it needs to be activated, which you ignored. You won't be able to fix that without reinstalling or using a crack. The phone activation will work but you need to change product key. There is an article of Microsoft support site on how to do that actaully. However, it's a problem with yo…

> You won't be able to fix that without reinstalling or using a crack.

This is the point that gets under my skin. You can't ask a commpany to actively maintain staff to support a 10 years old OS. But then, it shouldn't put DRM or activation processes that have fail cases needing active help for products that have long life spans (I know, planned obsolescence and etc.., but still).

This is a problem I don't have with other OSes, and it just looks bad in comparison.

To answer your points,

1) the license I am trying to use was acquired a long long time ago in a previous iteration of my company. It seems it would be a big hassle to retrieve who/how it was bought... That's bad resource management. But now I can't imagine it was stolen or frauded in any way.

2) Windows XP on a virtual machine was a choice among others (say win 7 with a separate physical machine for e.g.), and I needed time to try the install, knowing that activating an install that would be trashed afterwards would not be good. Now, this situation might be an answer, but otherwise it was a quite usable environment.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#226

Post by rbanffy »

scotty79 wrote: post #102
Groxx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're just reinforcing their argument. By not using the competition, you're ensuring the market for those products on the competition's OS doesn't exist. It's actively strengthening Microsoft's hold on the markets you frequent.

You've got a point. That why Microsoft turns a blind eye on piracy in developing countries. Piracy is the only way they can get os market share they want. That's the reason why their copyright technical protections are so lousy.

Allowing piracy is a pricing policy. Whit that, they effectively have a free product without risking having it called dumping.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#227

Post by zerostar07 »

xist wrote: post #157
Karunamon wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minor niggle, but please stop misusing "steal". We need to get that meme killed.

it's called "identity theft" when someone does it to your identity though :P Your SSN and details are all intellectual property too!

It's not like you lose your identity as a person though. And i think that that intellectual "property" belongs to the issuing authorities (government, banks etc) not you per se

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#228

Post by morsch »

cgoddard wrote: post #212
morsch wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the amazing thing is that they managed to do it again for Android. Except this time Apple is in a better spot than they were with PC operating systems.

Huh? Microsoft has a very tiny hold in mobile computing. Android is Google.

Yes, but it's fairly difficult to get an Android phone without paying the Microsoft tax, at least in the US: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/01/microsoft-now-...

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#229

Post by [deleted] »

Anderkent wrote: post #223
jebblue wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> When does the act of stealing occur? If I download a torrent and then delete it without watching/playing/listening, did I steal it? Yes, welcome to adulthood.

If I write random bits to a file and it turns out to be a Star Wars movie, did I steal it?

[deleted]

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#230

Post by soyelmango »

MatthewB wrote: post #71

These are great points and a good portion of piraters do so for these exact reasons. There are always going to be people who steal content/apps instead of paying for them but I am sure more than a few people pirate purely because it is a better user experience than what is currently offered. TV shows are a great example. I cut my cable about a year ago and haven't looked back since. I refuse to pay a premium for chan…

re: 3

Surely one reason for Netflix, Hulu, etc is to aim to provide a single point of access. Without this, you'd have to sign up to an account at HBO, Fox, Universal, Everylabeloutthere, then download each of their apps to get at the content.

That is, until Mr Entrepreneur creates a service that scrapes, aggregates, links to, or otherwise makes it easier to access all these content producers from a single site. The content producers might even decide that hosting, billing, and all that coding takes too much, and outsources it to Mr Entrepreneur. That hosting, billing, and coding costs Mr Entrepreneur, so he'll want a cut to cover costs, and some more to provide a profit incentive. Still, as a single point of access, tempting the producers with the promise of its big user base, the service can negotiate bulk licences…

And so, we're back to where we are now, where you access content through an intermediary, and pay for the convenience.

Capitalism comes in for a lot of criticism, but arbitrage and innovation is one of the things it does well (as long as there is balanced competition and regulation.)

That said, just because that's the way things are done now, that doesn't mean it's right. There is always scope for things to be done better, and for some of us, that ease is provided by torrents and such.

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