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Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

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Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#101

Post by Joeri »

jasonhansel wrote: post #77
goranmoomin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> App data should fall into an predictable folder regardless of the location from where is ran In fact, App Store apps are guaranteed to do that (by being in a closed sandbox); that's why Apple has an uninstallation procedure only for App Store apps. > specify in a manifest what files and where will them be stored, and explicitly specify it they should be automatically deleted or not after moving the app to the trash…

"Would you like to allow your toaster to make toast?" "Please grant your refrigerator permission to store milk."

You jest, but I think a kosher refrigerator that somehow prevented dairy from finding its way into the meat section would find customers.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#102

Post by tempodox »

tzs wrote: post #68
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #52

Uninstallable is nice, but how about something on making apps not in the app store trivially installable without developers paying Apple a ransom fee? Oh that's right, we can't control that, just have to pay the tax.

> Uninstallable is nice, but how about something on making apps not in the app store trivially installable without developers paying Apple a ransom fee? Isn't that what the article shows how to do?

No, it doesn't. It only shows how your app's data can be deleted if you uninstall your app in a certain way. The scary warnings for apps that aren't notarized are still there.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#103

Post by Razengan »

This actually points to an underlying weakness of the Unix/macOS permissions system: There is no concept of apps.

By now the filesystem permissions hierarchy really should be extended into Group → User → App.

You can see the half-baked workarounds many operating systems use like controlling access to entire folders like Documents, Downloads, Photos etc.

Why not just make it fine-grained and let us permit and deny apps' access to individual files, and see which app created which file?

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#104

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

pfp wrote: post #33
tacker2000 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just unbelievable. The billion $$ company cant just automate the uninstall procedure for their users? How hard would it be to auto delete the contents of ~/Library? Or have some periodic auto clean? one can always dream, no? I wonder how many users that have uninstalled VMware still have 30 gigs of unused VMs lying around on their disk.

No. The user data, preferences etc under ~/Library/ belong to you - whether it's 3 kB of preference toggles or 3 decades of email. It would be "unbelievable" if a multibillion company decided to be helpful and erase your data just because you deleted the binary that created them (actually, it wouldn't, but let's not digress into how those companies are stripping away our agency by mobile-ossifying everything). The wh…

> Also, "uninstallable" means "cannot be installed"

It means both cannot be installed and can be uninstalled, depending on context.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#105

Post by klodolph »

riolu wrote: post #88
klodolph wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OS also doesn’t know when you uninstall an app whether the app is really gone. You could have copied it to a network drive first, or maybe you have a different version of the app in a folder somewhere. Who knows?

Apps that install persistent services typically check if the .app bundle exists in applications so in most cases just trashing the .app is enough to stop any errant left overs from executing.

What I mean is that you may have moved the app to a USB drive or something, and so the stuff in ~/Library should remain.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#106

Post by jraph »

franky47 wrote: post #99

Somehow I misread the title as making apps impossible to remove, glad to see it was the opposite. It's the second time I read about Lunar, and my curiosity led me to their impressive monitor database: https://db.lunar.fyi/

> Somehow I misread the title as making apps impossible to remove

Weird, so did I! Why!?

After reading it again, there are still an ambiguity though: impossible to install, or that you can uninstall?

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#107

Post by ambersahdev »

That's neat! Recently I've been looking for resources on getting a py2app MacOS app notarized by Apple but haven't been able to find any precedent. Would love to see a tutorial for that too since you guys seems to be domain experts in this

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#108

Post by Aloha »

pilif wrote: post #74
Aloha wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most windows installers do not bother to clean up /Program Data or ~/AppData Nor do most linux programs remove dot files when they go away.

Especially ~/AppData (and ~/Library) is problematic because the person uninstalling the app might not be the person who was previously using the app. Reaching into another account‘s home directory to remove stuff feels very intrusive. Which would mean that any uninstall trying to also clean out library data is going to be incomplete. I think the consistent behavior of always keeping it is a win

I'd love if they'd clean up registry keys, or if windows did. But broadly I agree with you.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#109

Post by [deleted] »

franky47 wrote: post #99

Somehow I misread the title as making apps impossible to remove, glad to see it was the opposite. It's the second time I read about Lunar, and my curiosity led me to their impressive monitor database: https://db.lunar.fyi/

[deleted]

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#110

Post by throwaway290 »

riolu wrote: post #96
throwaway290 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that if I am trying to fix an app that I want to keep using I sure as hell may want to keep the preferences. The case where I want it to auto clean up is where it is repeatedly broken and I never really got to using and configuring it yet. It's pretty rare.

> Note that if I am trying to fix an app that I want to keep using I sure as hell may want to keep the preferences. Of course, `man defaults`. You can modify the preferences and potentially fix it, backup preferences, etc. Again I must stress that you use `defaults`, the .plist on disk isn't always accurate even if you terminate the app and reboot the machine. > The case where I want it to auto clean up is where it i…

So the only scenarios automatic uninstall is useful are far and between and even then no one size fits all, which is why I don't like the idea...
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