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Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

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Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#41

Post by Dalewyn »

pfp wrote: post #33
tacker2000 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just unbelievable. The billion $$ company cant just automate the uninstall procedure for their users? How hard would it be to auto delete the contents of ~/Library? Or have some periodic auto clean? one can always dream, no? I wonder how many users that have uninstalled VMware still have 30 gigs of unused VMs lying around on their disk.

No. The user data, preferences etc under ~/Library/ belong to you - whether it's 3 kB of preference toggles or 3 decades of email. It would be "unbelievable" if a multibillion company decided to be helpful and erase your data just because you deleted the binary that created them (actually, it wouldn't, but let's not digress into how those companies are stripping away our agency by mobile-ossifying everything). The wh…

>opaque windoze registries etc

Thanks for demonstrating your lack of credibility.

Uninstallers by and large only do the reverse of what an installer did by going through the install log and undoing what it did.

This means any additional files made after the the installation that weren't properly appended to the log, any additional information added to the Registry that weren't properly appended to the log, and any user files created after installation (eg: save files) will not be touched by the uninstaller.

Should everything be properly logged for clean uninstalling? Yes; Linux package managers are a decent example. But reality is not ideal, so we have to deal with practicality. This presumably is the case whether it's Windows, Mac, or Linux.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#42

Post by colonwqbang »

swatcoder wrote: post #40
throwaway892238 wrote: post #39

The thing I hate more than anything else about technology is when people make things that are intentionally shitty, for no other reason than they want it to be shitty. "Hello billion dollar company, I would like a way to install and uninstall my software in your operating system." "No." "Wh.... huh? Please?" "Pay us money and go through our app store." "Um....why? No? Please? Can't you just let me make software and g…

Makes a product for consumers who want it, knowing that other successful and widely available products exist for other consumers. Apple’s choices may not be what everyone wants, but they’re not without upsides for those that do.

What is your point, really?

What kind of "upside" for Lunar users are you alluding to?

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#43

Post by goranmoomin »

mattigames wrote: post #23
jrmg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also just run apps from anywhere - network drives, removable disks, disk images etc., so the system can’t just delete settings for apps it’s currently unaware of.

That's also Apple's fault isn't it? App data should fall into an predictable folder regardless of the location from where is ran, if for whatever reason the app needs to use a different folder it should be something developers have to go to multiple hurdles to implement (e.g. specify in a manifest what files and where will them be stored, and explicitly specify it they should be automatically deleted or not after mov…

> App data should fall into an predictable folder regardless of the location from where is ran

In fact, App Store apps are guaranteed to do that (by being in a closed sandbox); that's why Apple has an uninstallation procedure only for App Store apps.

> specify in a manifest what files and where will them be stored, and explicitly specify it they should be automatically deleted or not after moving the app to the trash

macOS tries to do that, and developers cry that macOS is becoming more and more closed. In fact, macOS already disallows all apps (including non-sandboxed apps) touching ~/Documents and ~/Downloads except for specific exceptions that the user grants.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#44

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

marcellus23 wrote: post #34
pnm45678 wrote: post #32

> Well, looks like we got a working uninstaller with a good user experience for free. Yes, but the downside is that you're now relying on an unstable interface (as I understand it, this behaviour is not documented as a contract anywhere). Apple would be free to break you at any time.

True, but the worst that could reasonably happen is that the "X" button would go away and it would be just like every other non-MAS app.

The 2nd worst thing would be for apple to decide they don't like apps pretending to come from the app store and just block them from installing at all

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#45

Post by AbusiveHNAdmin »

jdminhbg wrote: post #27
mattigames wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's also Apple's fault isn't it? App data should fall into an predictable folder regardless of the location from where is ran, if for whatever reason the app needs to use a different folder it should be something developers have to go to multiple hurdles to implement (e.g. specify in a manifest what files and where will them be stored, and explicitly specify it they should be automatically deleted or not after mov…

> That's also Apple's fault isn't it? Sure, but if they locked things down the way you’re proposing, people would absolutely lose their minds about the iOSification of macOS.

supporting uninstallation ≠ locking down

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#46

Post by AbusiveHNAdmin »

mdmglr wrote: post #2

I recently had to uninstall some apps and it’s common for apps to litter files throughout /Library and ~/Library. The UX from early MacOS days is you can drag/drop the App to the Trash Can to uninstall it. Does MacOS actually clean up the misc. files applications leave at some point?

[flagged]

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#47

Post by JadeNB »

kergonath wrote: post #9
kitsunesoba wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess they’re just expected to be left behind in case you change your mind and want to reinstall the app later. That way you’ll still continue where you left with the same settings. And if apps are well behaved, only writing tiny config files in ~/Library/Preferences/ and the like, it’s not really a problem. The amount of space taken up in that situation was tiny even when OS X 10.0 was brand new and 10GB was a c…

> On the other hand if the app pulls an Adobe and leaves tons of relatively heavy crap strewn about, yeah it should probably come with an uninstaller. Google is guilty of this sort of things as well. Well, it was anyway at some point. I somehow managed to get rid of everything, including their updater that re-installs itself regardless of what you do to remove it. I wish we had more control over sandboxes so we could…

> The new notifications when some software installs a background service is a step in the right direction.

I like that, too! Except that, at least for me, the bug is still present that I get notified of a background service that was added days, weeks, or years ago … over and over and over and over and over, even if I have turned it off.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#48

Post by guestbest »

tacker2000 wrote: post #15
MissTake wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, still leaves them behind. I’ve been using AppCleaner ( https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/ ) for years now and it’s a real neat (and free) app that’ll do a pretty decent job of cleaning up crud.

This is just unbelievable. The billion $$ company cant just automate the uninstall procedure for their users? How hard would it be to auto delete the contents of ~/Library? Or have some periodic auto clean? one can always dream, no? I wonder how many users that have uninstalled VMware still have 30 gigs of unused VMs lying around on their disk.

I wish there was an easy way to clear cache and uninstall devices in XCode

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#49

Post by IggleSniggle »

rcarr wrote: post #29
tough wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alfred has been dead for some time, a couple years back I noticed their packal community packages page being broken. Raycast is the present and future that quicksilver et alfred started.

This is complete bullshit. Alfred 5.0 was released in July last year and the last update 5.0.6 was in December. Packal is online and a couple of packages were updated 1 week 6 days ago. And not only that, but to replicate most of Alfred's functionality in Raycast, you have to rely on plugins and hope they are both secure and maintained by somebody whereas Alfred's functionality is maintained by the Alfred team. Stop…

Different user, but I too “remember” first quicksilver and then Alfred shutter. Did I hallucinate that, or did it happen and later have a revival, or what?

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#50

Post by guessmyname »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #44
marcellus23 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but the worst that could reasonably happen is that the "X" button would go away and it would be just like every other non-MAS app.

The 2nd worst thing would be for apple to decide they don't like apps pretending to come from the app store and just block them from installing at all

The article doesn’t explain how to install an application that can be uninstalled using the "X" button in the Mac Apple Store (MAS). Instead, it explains how to activate the button in apps that are already installed. So, your theory that Apple might eventually prevent the installation of an app is not relevant here, as the article isn’t discussing that at all. However, it’s possible that Apple could update the verification process for the MAS app to check for an empty "receipt" file and then prevent the application from starting until the user deletes that file. This seems like a reasonable expectation to me.
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