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Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

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Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Can you link to where anybody has redefined vaccine, and also evidence that the vaccinated become more likely to catch it than the unvaccinated? All that sounds like complete baloney.

Here you go - maybe you can reconsider your priors for classifying things as baloney now? Gov and media put a lot of effort into breaking our intuitions about their trustworthiness. Your gut reaction is the one we're trained to have.

CDC changed their definition of vaccine and vaccination:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article25411126...

> Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, the word “immunity” has been switched to “protection.”

> The term “vaccine” also got a makeover. The CDC’s definition changed from “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” to the current “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.”

Even dictionaries were edited:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/11/30/fact...

> Merriam-Webster revised its "vaccine" definition to replace "immunity" with "immune response."

This was done when it became clear that COVID vaccines didn't actually create any kind of immunity and thus weren't technically vaccines. Like always in public health they fixed this problem by manipulating language - now it only has to provoke some sort of response from the body. If that response turns out to be useless or actively harmful, no big deal, it's still a vaccine.

Observe that this change totally alters the meaning of being anti-vaxx. Take a substance that provokes an immune response but it's the wrong sort of response and doesn't work, diverting the immune system into wasting time whilst the virus replicates. It is 100% rational to oppose such a useless product, but by subtly manipulating the definition of vaccine they have now trained people to consider such opposition anti-vaxx and therefore automatically irrational.

Unfortunately this problem is not theoretical, bringing us to negative efficacy. It exists and is visible in many studies, but hidden by governments which use a variety of invalid statistical methodologies to alter the raw data, which is kept secret. Nonetheless, they aren't the only ones that can count cases. It's a big topic but some studies and explanations of what's going on can be found here:

https://bartram.substack.com/p/even-more-negative-vaccine-ef...

The root biological cause seems to be related to the definitional game playing. The vaccines targeted the 2019 Wuhan spike and the antibodies vaccinated people produce are meant to dock with those specific proteins. But by the time vaccination is rolling out big time we are already at Delta, the virus spike has evolved quite significantly and the antibodies aren't so effective anymore. The body doesn't seem to recognize this quickly enough and spends a lot of time producing the wrong sort of antibodies, thinking it's successfully fighting the invader. Unvaccinated people have immune systems that haven't been trained in any way, so their first real SARS-CoV-2 infection triggers the antibody learning process immediately and they develop immunity to the latest version of the virus quicker.

This problem is called imprinting and is visible in the booster and bivalent trials. They didn't help reduce COVID cases and even made them higher - actually 100% of test subjects got COVID when exposed in the bivalent trials, but the vaccines were approved anyway because under the new definition they only need to provoke an immune response of some kind, not create immunity. Public health responded to failure by conflating the means and the end.

The media never covered any of this and systematically attacked the independent bloggers and researchers who did. Which is why smart people don't trust them.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average journalist values the truth and desires to report on the news with accuracy and fairness The average journalist thinks they value the truth, accuracy and fairness. Observed behavior is very different to this flattering self portrait which is why they aren't trusted. Actual behaviors of real journalists that create distrust which can't be blamed on advertisers or editors: - Accepting large grants from bi…

Those are pretty much all problems at the level of the editors, not the individual journalists. > the way the press constantly cites academic "experts" whose papers are known to not replicate or which have major methodology problems. Most journalists don't have the background to know whose papers replicate and whose do not if they are not specialized science reporters.

It's individual journalists that take the grants, they take the interviews with discredited people, they refuse to cover one side of the story because they were convinced by the other side that they're on the Right Side Of History, etc. If you make editors responsible for all that then what are journalists? Robots?

> Most journalists don't have the background to know whose papers replicate and whose do not

Yet volunteer bloggers regularly manage to not only read papers, they find specific problems with them.

The core problem here is that journalism as a field culturally accepts very low standards, and has no interest in raising them. Journalists are trained not to think too hard about anything and to distrust anyone who does, which is why independent journalism has such a different flavor to it. During COVID you could go to the legacy media and read a headline like "Lockdowns saved 3.1 million lives" which would quote a press release from a university. Then a few hours later you could go read some blog by some random anonymous dude and get a list of five massive and obvious methodology errors that rendered the underlying paper deceptive propaganda, problems of the sort that you didn't need any expertise to notice.

Normies see this and think maybe people who can't pull off amazing feats of investigation like reading publicly available PDFs shouldn't be journalists?

In journalistic culture not only won't they do things like this, they train their readers and each other to systematically ignore such investigations because they aren't "credible sources". But that's so wrong. They are credible sources, because they systematically prove their claims and over time that creates more credibility than whatever photocopier for academic opinions is being presented by the newspapers today.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CNN isn't good, but it's not even close to being equivalent. I doubt there's a single news org that doesn't let their bias slip from time to time, but let's not pretend that makes them all the same or that there aren't some much much worse than others. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fox-news-bias/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/one-america-news-network/ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/cnn-bias/

I’ve seen this false equivalency being regurgitated over and over whenever someone points out that Fox News is actually a far-right propaganda outlet.

That’s part of the mechanism to bolster RW propaganda: pay no attention to this serial killer over here, because the person next to him double parks.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#795
post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For clarity, 40 ppm (parts per million) is equivalent to 0.004% of the composition. Lots of things are dangerous even at concentrations measured in PPM. For example, the level of Phosgene that’s “immediately dangerous to life” is 2 ppm: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/75445.html . Maybe the point is that this 20 ppm quickly turns into less based on further dilution. But there’s a lot of analysis required to support…

Anything quickly turns into less based on further dilution, no matter the concentration

In homeopathy, it goes from bad->less bad->good on dilution!

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a fan of CNN, but they do a better job at distinguishing the difference between news and editorial. The Fox issue is they conflate the two. I used to watch alot of TV news and the actual news content was pretty good on Fox on national issues, but their affiliates were usually pretty awful. The news product produced by the networks until circa 1999 were a superior product in every way. Cable outlets have alway…

> but they do a better job The Onion does a better job than Fox.

"The Onion wins Pulitzer; expresses confusion: editor says 'we were just drinking at the pub and started making shit up; we didn't know it was real!'"

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#797
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people who come to the conclusion that news is 'fake' have a gateway moment. Mine is from 25 years ago and something rather silly. In this particular case a typo. What we see out of the email dumps on twitter should scare many this is the case. They were having twitter 'take care of it'. To pretend they are not doing this to our media and other web sources would be a bit of a stretch to say the least. Our me…

I'm not sure anyone has ever suggested that Twitter (in general) is a reliable source of information, so I'm not sure why you bring it up. Apart form that, perhaps I am misunderstanding, but you seem to be saying that you decided not to trust the news because you saw a typo in a news story 25 years ago. I'm doing my best to be charitable here, but how can that possibly make any sense?

It is the 'fake item' that leads you to other fake items. You find the patterns and see the uncharitable takes. You see the mockingbird style reporting. It is the gateway moment I was pointing out. You start with something small and it grows. You can not un-see it. A gateway moment for them was a typo. Mine was a repeated story over and over as I traveled between cities and timezones but presented as if that particular news org had wrote it all up by themselves. When it was just mad-lib style fill in the blank.

I bring up twitter and did not claim it was 'authoritative' but to show that behind the scenes our political machine is shaping the narrative. Spiking stories and promoting others. The people who run those orgs are doing it gladly. To pretend the same thing that happened at twitter is not happening at NBC/CNN/FOX/NYT/etc would be a bold claim. Like you point out twitter is not that valuable but they made a point of it to do it. Proper suppression of people and censorship and narrative shaping. The very same people who used to say 'the internet see censorship as damage and routes around it' are the very ones building a censorship news controlling apparatus. Then gaslighting us with 'how dare you question them they are doing it for our safety!'

News is very unreliable in most forms. You can push particular opinions very easily. It is not that hard to do. Our news is basically gossip and talk shows. With news as the thin premise that they are doing.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#798
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a black and white spin. First: I don't know which sociological studies you refer to, but most of it is politically colored arm chair philosophy. These insights didn't come from sociology, but from political movements. Second: there's a difference not providing a full picture of a war or a new economic policy, and outright lying. I expect news organizations to provide me with the basic info: incomplete, b…

Saying this is a "spin" seems like an attempt to undermine the comment. > Saying they're all lying and always have is a (probably politically motivated) spin against normal news organizations. Perhaps the most wooden way to interpret what they're is saying. I think that most people would read this as "by in large, most are lying". Pointing this out is useful because it shows the irony in the whole matter. This kind o…

Sorry, but the sentence

> it took a few years ... to be come publicized knowledge that the media lied about every war, about every economic policy, ...

is exactly what you call a "wooden" statement. But even when the author meant "by and large, the media lied", the statement is a dishonest exaggeration it is. Of course there are media that can be caught lying over and over again, but there are sufficient large, conscientious news outlets to suppose it is a dirty spin.

> If we continue with this way of interpreting one another we'll likely fall into the same polarization that we're complaining about (again, a grand irony).

Discrediting all media equally is part of polarization, and letting it go isn't helpful. Discussing it as if it were true, as many seem to do, is a symptom that it has gone too far.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#799
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had friends who became Trump supporters, and I unfriended them. I believe in morals. I believe in God. There's no way I can be friends with people who, at best, only pay lip service to those concepts while using them to further patent evil. To be clear, I'm not really on the "blue team" either. But that's a team that hasn't been taken over by the worst of its fans, nor is it motivated by things such as xenophobia,…

Agreed, I did the same. I decided a couple years into his presidency that I'm fundamentally morally incompatible with people who could support such an abhorrent asshole. Not to mention their incredible propensity for confirmation bias, which is frankly reason enough on its own to remove them from my life. I lost a few acquaintances and one friend during the latter Trump years. I value my friends highly, but I regret…

It is good to see someone else doesn't believe that we should start moving moral goalposts just because society starts sliding into depravity.

What would all these people objecting to this do if they were in a time and place where some real shit was going down? Lynchings, genocides, etc? I guess they'd stand by and be ok with it and rationalize those things.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#800
post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'll get no argument from me on that front, but I think that's a pretty bipartisan failing. Not really? Has there been any cult of personality like Trump's not only among Dems but also among Republicans, aside from him, in American politics within living memory? (awk phrasing, but I think you get the idea). Maybe Reagan? But even then, it wasn't this level of incredibly personal devotion. Think about it: we never…

I guess I was thinking more in the sense that people follow parties instead of picking individual issues. But on supporting people, I think Obama definitely had devoted fans. Bernie did as well. I don't think Romney or McCain had the kind of draw to build up a big fan base. A lot of candidates that come along just aren't very exciting to anybody but their corporate handlers. It's not all that surprising that an Obama…

> I guess I was thinking more in the sense that people follow parties instead of picking individual issues.

Yeah, we definitely have a problem in this country with limited options. I think a sizeable majority likely want at least one or two other parties in the mix.

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