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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#91

Post by nicoburns »

_dain_ wrote: post #24
andrepd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are a viable option only on low-density rural areas + long distance trips. Short distance you can do by biking (e-bikes are the modern evolution of the old two-stroke scooter) or walking. In high density public transportation is massively faster, cheaper, and more efficient that personal automobile.

>In high density public transportation is massively faster, cheaper, and more efficient that personal automobile. This assumes the public transportation is competently run, which is a rarity in the Anglophone world. In the UK I think the only good one is TfL. Meanwhile Birmingham has a million people and no metro. The one time I visited NYC the subway seemed third world.

Most cities in the UK are small enough that you can walk most places. Maybe combined with catching a bus into the center and back out again. Birmingham is possibly in an awkward middle ground where it doesn't have good public transport but is big enough that that's awkward.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#92

Post by kensai »

david-gpu wrote: post #67
kensai wrote: post #27

I really wished this demonisation of the car stopped. Modern cars are way more climate friendly than merely 10-20 years ago and many climate-conscious persons do pool to commute. But we need to understand. There are cases where the car is a must. Unavoidable. Imagine having toddlers, having to do heavy groceries, and living in a place with difficult landscape or challenging weather. Imagine having a neurological dise…

> Imagine having toddlers, having to do heavy groceries, and living in a place with difficult landscape or challenging weather. Imagine having a neurological disease or some other disability. I tick all of those boxes and never had a car. I live in the city, walking and using public transit. Toddlers love to walk and to be carried in the stroller. Cars from the suburbs are a constant inconvenience for us living in in…

So what do you imply? That (inner) cities will be only for your carless people? Good for you that you tick the boxes and still not use the car. I know of people that cannot manage this.

The inner cities are also places were the suburbs people come to work and play. So space in underground parkings or other accomodations is expected. Imagine if the sububs people decided to say to you (inner) city people that you are not allowed to go to their green parks and recreation areas because you are "shoving externalities of your (city) lifestyle to them".

Jesus.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#93

Post by schnitzelstoat »

I don't have a car because I live in one of the densest cities in Europe with awful traffic and no parking.

Public transport can be slow and you get weirdos on it occasionally and it's annoying if you want to visit somewhere without a train station like a castle or whatever - but it doesn't seem worth the hassle of having one in the city.

I really wish they'd expand the train network though.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#95

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

mightybyte wrote: post #49
galangalalgol wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a real city? I live in one of 20 biggest in the US, but even #2 LA is pretty hard to get around without a car. My experience in traveling has been that places where carless transportation is easy, are places I can only afford to visit, not live.

I think this is a common misconception. People say this about NYC, but it's simply not true. I have artist friends who live in NYC and make something like 30k / year. No, you probably won't be able to live in Manhattan with that kind of money but NYC is much bigger than Manhattan and it is still possible to live quite affordable and have access to the city's public transit and not need a car.

NYC is an outlier in the US, though.

I haven't lived there in a long time, but I lived in Brooklyn both with and without a car. The car rarely added any convenience and was a royal pain in the ass to find parking for. If not for the fact that my job was in CT and I ended up moving there, I would have sold it.

However, everywhere else I've lived, life was much easier with a car.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#97

Post by Retric »

Ekaros wrote: post #55
wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

That is optimal situation. But it does breakdown or be worse with slightly more complicated routes. Like I used to travel from smaller city to bigger city to other big city. And in the end public transport was probably 50% if not longer in time. First 15-20 minutes to station, then 45 minutes with local train. Wait for intercity, ~2 hours and 30 minutes or get lift to destination. Compared to straight 2 hours from do…

Swapping trains can take a while, but until self driving works you can’t do much while driving. And even with self driving simply getting up and stretching, grabbing a bite to eat, or even just going to the bathroom requires you to stop making progress for a while.

Driving has several advantages, but getting stuck in traffic is extremely unpleasant in ways that similar delays on other forms of travel don’t really replicate.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#98

Post by BizarreByte »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #21

of course they are, cars are expensive, dangerous, and dirty… traffic is miserable, maintenance is expensive, you can’t trust anyone else on the road… a car might be the worst thing I own but I live in a place where I couldn’t eat or get to the doctor’s office without one

> maintenance is expensive

This is largely just nonsense for a lot of modern cars. I’m at 80k in 4 years and have only done oil changes and tyres.

My mother only had her first “big” repair on her car at 140k after 10 years.

Cars are more reliable than they’ve ever been.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#99

Post by BrandonS113 »

wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

I had to spend a few months in Holland for work. We we left with the problem of what do do on the weekends. You can't rent bikes if you are not Dutch, and visiting the lovely villages and other places Holland is full of is a time consuming exercise in futility unless one has a car.

A train is great for Rotterdam-Hague-Amsterdam, not so good for visiting the Bosch museum in 's-Hertogenbosch.

Holland has a great road system and parking everywhere. The perfect place for a car owner.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#100

Post by kensai »

spyremeown wrote: post #40
kensai wrote: post #27

I really wished this demonisation of the car stopped. Modern cars are way more climate friendly than merely 10-20 years ago and many climate-conscious persons do pool to commute. But we need to understand. There are cases where the car is a must. Unavoidable. Imagine having toddlers, having to do heavy groceries, and living in a place with difficult landscape or challenging weather. Imagine having a neurological dise…

>But we need to understand. There are cases where the car is a must. Unavoidable. Imagine having toddlers, having to do heavy groceries, and living in a place with difficult landscape or challenging weather. Imagine having a neurological disease or some other disability. Bud, nobody is taking the car away from those kinds of use cases. It's very clear for most people that cars are necessary in those situations, and t…

Bud, no. The demonising is complete and utter. To the point in some cities in Europe ecoterrorists attack parked cars. Some cases are so ridiculous, they've even attecked parked Teslas and other electric cars.

Fact of the matter is the following: not everyone lives near a fantastic commuting infrastructure, let alone can physically achieve moving from A to B against the elements or their other problems.

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