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Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

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Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#131
post #20
post #13

Better headline: half of Americans don't know that (many) news organizations deliberately mislead them.

Bette yet: half of Americans believe in conspiracies with superhuman coordination and execution capabilities. I’ve worked in a newsroom. The idea that puppet masters thousands of miles away are controlling things is absurd to the point of hilarity. Yes, Rupert Murdoch, etc. But it’s all emergent behavior. There is no master plan. These organizations are not well run enough to deliberately get stories out in time, let…

This line assumes that each person exists in the world as an ideal individual, subject only to their own independent logic, biases, and whims. In reality, we all have concrete material interests which are determined by concrete economic relations. Our logic, biases, and whims—the very nature of our consciousness—all flow from our material and social reality.

These material interests are not entirely individual and distinct; they fall within broad strata based on the overall structure of the economy (e.g., the class of people with the capacity to own a major media organization and the class of people who make a living by serving them). Thus, there is no need for a conscious conspiracy coordinating every aspect of the media machine since the basic character of the consciousness of those involved flows from a more fundamental material reality. At the same time, there’s no reason one can’t become consciously aware of the stratum of shared material interests that one exists within, and I think it would be foolish to assume that the people at the highest levels of power and wealth in the world have failed to do so.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean in exile?

Edward Snowden has not been exiled in any non-misleading use of the term. He had many opportunities to return to the United States, and could do so today if his current hosts allowed it.

Are you kidding me? You honest to God would trust the US government if you were in his situation?

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#133
post #13

Better headline: half of Americans don't know that (many) news organizations deliberately mislead them.

Not in the US, but I usually see a lot of people saying don't trust the news but it's also not as if they are doing any rational thinking about it. And a lot of the times is just because news are not validating their own beliefs so I think it's even worse than just having bad news.

I would say its hard to do any rational thinking about come to the conclusion that the 24/h news orgs are meant to inform you.

The easy angle is product placement [1]. Literally fork over a small sum of money and you get the news org to rave about your product without doing any verification.

There's also how a headline is not written by the author so it won't always reflect the contents of the article.

> And a lot of the times is just because news are not validating their own beliefs

IMO, the news orgs have a symbiotic relation with their viewers. The viewers want their viewpoint reinforced and the news org wants views. So the news org put out a biased product so that their viewers will selectively watch that news org. However, this still means that news org aren't actually trying to inform.

My biggest gripe is how often they'll refuse to link to actual legal documents when talking about filed lawsuits and the like and in general I don't find some of their claims in the article to be as supported by the actual filings.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIi_QS1tdFM

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#134

They do. The only real investigative journalists these days - Edward Snowden and Julian Assange - face life in prison and exile. Even Seymour Hersh has been smeared to discredit him now he dared speak against the establishment. It is not journalists' role to be a mouthpiece for the government, but to challenge it.

Forget Hersh, who is used to operating on the edge. How about Jeff Gerth and the Columbia Journalism Review being totally ignored?

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#135
post #13

Better headline: half of Americans don't know that (many) news organizations deliberately mislead them.

Do you have an example from the last year how CNN deliberately misled? How often does that happen? My view is that serious news organizations clearly don't deliberately mislead but they have some amount of bias and contain inaccuracies as a result of low-quality reporting. And I think the perception of "MSM" which is common among the group of people which includes Elon / libertarians / MAGA fanatics / alt-right is ob…

And I'll add that in being large multi-billion dollar publicly traded businesses, they are mostly driven by profit motive and not political motives.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#136
So much bitterness here in the comments like "duh", "took them long enough", etc. So, honest question: if, you know, a pillar of democracy is by default laughed at, how can then this democracy function? If half the country thinks they are getting brainwashed, and the other half doesn't think they are getting brainwashed (while possibly getting brainwashed right in that same moment). How can such people make educated choices?

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#137
I (live in the US) started reading a lot of BBC. At least their agenda isn't to promote some kind of ideology within my own country.

What's frustrating is that almost all news sources I come across have agendas. I used to watch a lot of the Daily Show in the 2000s, but when it was a slow news day, just make fun of Bush.

Later I used to watch the Nightly show with Colbert, but a year into the Trump presidency they got so hyper-focused on Trump that they didn't talk about anything else. I stopped watching.

Now that I commute occasionally, I sometimes listen to NPR. Sometimes they offer news, but most of the time their point of view is just promoting a narrative that I either find uninteresting, or irrelevant. I lean pretty left, but I don't need to listen to a story about a fringe group every time I sit in the car.

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#138

They do. The only real investigative journalists these days - Edward Snowden and Julian Assange - face life in prison and exile. Even Seymour Hersh has been smeared to discredit him now he dared speak against the establishment. It is not journalists' role to be a mouthpiece for the government, but to challenge it.

Compare Seymour Hersh's codswallop on the Skripal affair with the excellent work done by Bellingcat. It's clear that in this case the mainstream media got it mostly right and Hersh made a dog's breakfast of it. This colours my attitude to his Nordstream "revelations".

[dead]

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#139

They do. The only real investigative journalists these days - Edward Snowden and Julian Assange - face life in prison and exile. Even Seymour Hersh has been smeared to discredit him now he dared speak against the establishment. It is not journalists' role to be a mouthpiece for the government, but to challenge it.

Edward Snowden was not, nor as far as I know did he ever claim to be, a journalist. He was at best a whistleblower, although given where he now lives and the citizenship he holds, it's clear that nothing he says or does can be trusted.

[deleted]

Re: Half of Americans now believe that news organizations deliberately mislead them

#140
post #13

Better headline: half of Americans don't know that (many) news organizations deliberately mislead them.

My biggest gripe with the news, and the journalist class, is they don't report on themselves enough or really at all.

All media critique comes form comedians these days. Which is kind of grim because sometimes things actually matter and aren't just jokes. Yet Journalist A gets to carry water for criminal X, and Journalist B doesn't say anything about it. Then some comedian makes a joke and everyone moves on. The journalists still get to be journalists. The comedian's are making jokes and were all out here seeing no consequences for anything.

The post truth world of journalism isn't fun.

There's checks and balances in government, but the 4th estate just seems to be a wild lands of bullshit and can't check itself. And those same Journalists seem to think this is a good system.

Anyway rant over. I use patreon to support indie media and news I like. But even that has downsides, filter bubbles etc.

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