Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 194 posts

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#171

Post by srackey »

stefan_ wrote: post #75
alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

You are talking about Tesla, who will give you a 40h contract, then expect you to work for 60h with no extra pay. Who is the bigger thief?

Don’t take the job then.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#172

Post by klyrs »

ecf wrote: post #163

> The Buffalo plant has over 800 Tesla Autopilot analysts with starting pay of about $19 per hour, Bloomberg wrote. The workers are reportedly "in non-engineering roles that contribute to Tesla's automated-driving development, including by identifying objects in images its vehicles capture and helping its systems recognize them on the road." Best of luck to them but they’re in for a wake up call if they think they’re…

Others have noted that Tesla got a big subsidy that requires them to employ a minimum number of workers. This appears to be an curious point of leverage. Tesla can't just shut it down to quash the union, like your Walmart or Starbucks.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#173

Post by surement »

kibwen wrote: post #165
surement wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if the "employer-employee relationship" was not a positive sum transaction then it wouldn't happen

This is damning with faint praise. When Clint Eastwood pulls out a gun, tosses Tuco a shovel, and tells him to start digging, that's also a positive sum transaction, but it may bode poorly for Tuco.

I don't know that reference but no one we're talking about here is under threat of death from their employer. You are an intellectually dishonest person.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#174

Post by JohnnyHerz »

ecf wrote: post #163

> The Buffalo plant has over 800 Tesla Autopilot analysts with starting pay of about $19 per hour, Bloomberg wrote. The workers are reportedly "in non-engineering roles that contribute to Tesla's automated-driving development, including by identifying objects in images its vehicles capture and helping its systems recognize them on the road." Best of luck to them but they’re in for a wake up call if they think they’re…

If unionizing was an organic reaction to a work environment, i would be less jaded.

However, in most cases, the employees don't initiate the idea of unionizing. The typical scenario involves a union organizer/s stalking the employees, often following them as they leave work in order to approach them. The union organizer is a glorified salesman promoting his product. As such, he makes it sound like being part of a union is amazing and that the employees current situation is tantamount to slave labor. Given the pressure sales pitch and one sided presentation, sheeple (employees) fall for the idea, either believing the stories that are being sold or thinking "what the heck, can't hurt anything right?."

What they don't know until it's too late is how a union quickly evolves until it becomes nothing more than a way to serve a small group of union leaders so they can take advantage of a group of employees. Unions ultimately become parasites of an organization and will eventually hasten it's demise.

Why have unions become so scarce (outside of government orgs)? Could it be because they end up putting their employer out of business?

Are there examples of unions that are positive and contributing factors to a company's success? They are few and far between.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#175

Post by mrzimmerman »

surement wrote: post #154
PeterisP wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A decent union is mostly about job conditions, not job security - collective bargaining prevents a "race to the bottom" where abusive conditions creep in due to there always being some people who'll do the job anyway. A good example is the Screen Actors Guild which imposes all kinds of minimum conditions, for example, due to which all kinds of safety issues in filming are handled quite decently (even if stuff does st…

> conditions creep in due to there always being some people who'll do the job anyway don't worry, minimum wage laws keep those pesky people unemployed

I can’t tell if you’re against minimum wage laws or not but I’ll say regardless that minimum wage laws show a boat in worker income and small employment effects:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#176

Post by mrzimmerman »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

I also live in a “right to fire for whatever” state, often referred to as “right to work” which really means the right of employers to ignore union agreements and compensate individuals less if the individual agrees to it. It’s already illegal at the federal level to force someone to be part of a union and states like ours just work harder to make sure we don’t end up collectively bargaining for better conditions by controlling the supply of our labor of which our employers are the consumers (literally basic market economics and nothing more).

Your statement brings to mind this quote from Martin Niemöller, who was sympathetic to the Nazis until he witnessed the escalation and reach of their beliefs:

> First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. > Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. > Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. > Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. > —Martin Niemöller

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#177

Post by surement »

mrzimmerman wrote: post #175
surement wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> conditions creep in due to there always being some people who'll do the job anyway don't worry, minimum wage laws keep those pesky people unemployed

I can’t tell if you’re against minimum wage laws or not but I’ll say regardless that minimum wage laws show a boat in worker income and small employment effects: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

The 5% of economists who suck up to politicians are always able to find data that shows that if you set a floor on the price of labor it somehow doesn't affect demand. The other 95%–the ones who aren't grifters–know that the only effect of minimum wage laws is unemployment for those who would otherwise make less than the price floor. This has devastating effects on teenage and young adult unemployment, and prevents those people from gaining experience, which is highly correlated with income.

Everyone can already set their own price floor under which they will not work. There's zero good reason to make it illegal for people to choose their own minimum. This is third parties making the decision because they feel icky about it. No one who's ever had a low wage would've preferred to not work at all. Ask all the people e.g. who worked for $10/h before California raised the minimum wage to $15/h.

When less experienced workers agree to receive less in compensation it's because they understand that they are not just being compensated financially, they are also gaining experience.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#179

Post by mock-possum »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #43

Tesla should take the initiative and bring in a co-operative German-style union or they are going to get stuck with an antagonistic UAW or similar.

Isn’t that a contradiction? The union is for the workers, not the company - how could the company make a union? Doesn’t it have to be the workers who organize?
Post reply on HN