Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 194 posts

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#41

Post by hef19898 »

Vespasian wrote: post #26
elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Working in Europe I have never been a member of a union but enjoy plenty of the achievements fought over in previous decades. Right now my strong market position as someone in a sought after field and with some experience under my belt I am able to negotiate an individual contract that exceeds collective bargain agreements (that's possible in most companies here). Members of my immediate family don't have that luxury…

Considering that some "union" jobs in Germany (there are collectively negotiated terms and conditions per industry which apply to everyone working at a company covered by those conditions whether or not being an actual union member) can go up to as much 120k per year for a 40 hour work week, and increase by a couple of percent every other year so, well, those jobs are a lot more attractive than people think.

Added benefit: working at rather stable companies with more or less solid financials.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#42

Post by hef19898 »

leereeves wrote: post #28
GAN_Game wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Unproductive? Then you must really be exercised about the heirs who own the majority of stock, who can and often do siphon off the created wealth of those working and creating wealth, via dividend profit of expropriated surplus labor time. Oh, I see no such complaint. Just some co-workers who are "unproductive".

Have you seen the margins on businesses old enough to be owned by heirs? They're only "siphoning off" a few percent. Edit: I misunderstood. I thought the complaint was that the heirs were taking a lot of created wealth from each worker. Not simply that they were wealthy.

Those heirs are the richest people in Europe, owning everything from VW and Porsche to BMW and a bunch of other household names. And those few percent are coming off from quite huge figures...

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#44

Post by mc32 »

moolcool wrote: post #32
alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

> they are doing better than all the other car companies By which metric? Their market cap is astronomical, but they, to be frank, don't actually make a lot of cars. Not to mention that virtually every product release is delayed ad nauseum, FSD from Tesla is both a pipe dream and a liability nightmare, and other manufacturers, both foreign and domestic, are rapidly catching up with appealing EVs.

Profit per electric car[1]. They beat all competitors by a very large margin.

Heh, it looks like people disagree that this is a valid metric parent was asking for or disagree that the data is valid. Oh, goodness.

[1]https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#45

Post by wnkrshm »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

You are in the privileged position that your employer actually needs you specifically because you aren't easily replaced. That can change over time.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#46

Post by AlexandrB »

alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

> I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a few week usually find out that a lot of people are constantly stealing valuable materials from the company. It’s always people in the union with some friends that work on the floor.

And it's always some capitalist stealing wages from hundreds (or thousands) of people at a time. Incidentally, has Twitter paid the 3 months severance it owes ex-Twitter employees yet?

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#47

Post by mc32 »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #35
alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

> I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a few week usually find out that a lot of people are constantly stealing valuable materials from the company. It’s always people in the union with some friends that work on the floor. It always strikes me how unions in the US are subject to these kinds of casual st…

The structure of unions is such that it facilitates and encourages seniority as well as corruption including ties to the mob. It's no accident that unions are targets of corruption by the feds for various forms of malfeasance.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#48

Post by quadrifoliate »

abduhl wrote: post #29
quadrifoliate wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're Stockholm Syndromed, but I definitely think you're lacking in empathy. Think about it this way -- do you think you have been always productive and reliable, 100% of the time? If not (let's say, 5% of the time you weren't), then you were the the unproductive or unreliable coworker, possibly due to factors in your life that you could not control. The idea of a union is that it insulates you from be…

>> The idea of a union is that it insulates you from being instantly punished for factors you might not be able to control a little better than the market is doing right now (look for news about new parents who were part of the layoffs recently). Since when has this been the idea of the union? Recall that nearly all union rules are set by seniority, not personal factors like having a bad day or having a child.

> Recall that nearly all union rules are set by seniority, not personal factors like having a bad day or having a child.

I'm unable to understand what you're saying here. Of course, union rules are not set by personal factors. I meant that they make it less easy to fire you for personal factors due to the heavier emphasis on due process in unionized workplaces.

In most non-union workplaces in the US, you can get fired because your boss had a bad day, or (practically) if you announce that you're pregnant. The latter case is theoretically protected, but it's very hard for an average person to get an appropriate lawyer, show a pattern and sue the workplace.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#49

Post by Robotbeat »

cactusplant7374 wrote: post #11
elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Wouldn’t Tesla build quality go up with a union that can make demands? If so, how can we say Tesla’s system is working and management isn’t unproductive and unreliable?

I have seen no evidence of build quality being higher in the unionized GM and Ford than the non-unionized Toyota, Hyundai, and Honda plants in the US. The opposite may even be true.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#50

Post by andsoitis »

alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

people on the factory floor are able to steal enough valuable materials that a heavy industry company (I mean, multiple companies) approaches bankruptcy? and management doesn’t have sufficient inventory logs to notice something is amiss?

that doesn’t sound like a true story.

Post reply on HN