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Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

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Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#21

Post by GAN_Game »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

> Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers.

Unproductive? Then you must really be exercised about the heirs who own the majority of stock, who can and often do siphon off the created wealth of those working and creating wealth, via dividend profit of expropriated surplus labor time.

Oh, I see no such complaint. Just some co-workers who are "unproductive".

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#23

Post by alfor »

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power.

They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies.

I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a few week usually find out that a lot of people are constantly stealing valuable materials from the company. It’s always people in the union with some friends that work on the floor.

He confront them, fire them and a few months later the company become viable again. He found out that the most corrupt people are almost always in the Union organisation.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#24

Post by nicoburns »

elif wrote: post #10
maxehmookau wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that "invidivual performance and personal relationships" provides job security is a laughable idea in almost any industry. The wave of tech layoffs should've made that clear. The USA's primal hatred of unions will always blow my mind. There's power in a union my friend.

I'm not trying to say everyone that got let go is a low performer or has poor personal skills. I've seen plenty of good employees fired for bad or no reason. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that even working with a guillotine above my head feels preferable to having to pick up the slack of people coasting and not meeting their commitments.

Why do you associate unions with people coasting and not meeting their commitments? For example, two unions striking here in UK recently have teacher and nurse unions. They’re some of the hardest working professions I’ve seen, but they get compensated poorly for it, and in the case of nurses they have to work ridiculously long and busy shifts because they are severely understaffed.

Unions have a place for fighting against unfair dismissals of an individual, but they are primarily for when everyone is being treated badly.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#25

Post by abduhl »

GAN_Game wrote: post #21
elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

> Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Unproductive? Then you must really be exercised about the heirs who own the majority of stock, who can and often do siphon off the created wealth of those working and creating wealth, via dividend profit of expropriated surplus labor time. Oh, I see no such complaint. Just some co-workers who are "unproductive".

Why is it only the heirs? Shouldn’t your issue be with all future stockholders beyond the original founders and venture capitalists? Although I assume you’d feel similar about the venture capitalists?

You wouldn’t happen to own any stocks, would you?

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#26

Post by Vespasian »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Working in Europe I have never been a member of a union but enjoy plenty of the achievements fought over in previous decades. Right now my strong market position as someone in a sought after field and with some experience under my belt I am able to negotiate an individual contract that exceeds collective bargain agreements (that's possible in most companies here).

Members of my immediate family don't have that luxury. They are hardworking and diligent people at physically demanding jobs. Yet they get treated way worse than I in my cushy office job.

Individually they don't have much bargaining power but as a group they can get a better outcome and negotiate eye to eye with business owners. It makes sense to carry a few underperformers with you if the benefits outweigh the costs.

In the end market realities still require the company to make a profit or nobody gets paid. But there is no reason why workers/unions shouldn't demand a greater share of that profit.

Look at almost any German International company for a working examples. All Auto manufacturers are heavily unionized and still manage to be innovative and make a very healthy profit. During the Euro crisis in 2008 Unions and business owners worked together to reduce hours and workforce because everyone understood the dire situation.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#27

Post by quadrifoliate »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

I don't think you're Stockholm Syndromed, but I definitely think you're lacking in empathy. Think about it this way -- do you think you have been always productive and reliable, 100% of the time?

If not (let's say, 5% of the time you weren't), then you were the the unproductive or unreliable coworker, possibly due to factors in your life that you could not control. The idea of a union is that it insulates you from being instantly punished for factors you might not be able to control a little better than the market is doing right now. Look for news about new parents who were part of the layoffs recently.

Out of "individual performance and developing personal relationships", the "developing personal relationships" part of the equation is slowly fading. When was the last time you got a job purely on the basis of your personal relationships without having to jump through hoops to show your skills?

I am a little hesitant about unions too, but I'm at least willing to give them a chance based on the hack-and-slash behavior from industry leaders seeking to please their investors.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#28

Post by leereeves »

GAN_Game wrote: post #21
elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

> Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Unproductive? Then you must really be exercised about the heirs who own the majority of stock, who can and often do siphon off the created wealth of those working and creating wealth, via dividend profit of expropriated surplus labor time. Oh, I see no such complaint. Just some co-workers who are "unproductive".

Have you seen the margins on businesses old enough to be owned by heirs? They're only "siphoning off" a few percent.

Edit: I misunderstood. I thought the complaint was that the heirs were taking a lot of created wealth from each worker. Not simply that they were wealthy.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#29

Post by abduhl »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #27
elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

I don't think you're Stockholm Syndromed, but I definitely think you're lacking in empathy. Think about it this way -- do you think you have been always productive and reliable, 100% of the time? If not (let's say, 5% of the time you weren't), then you were the the unproductive or unreliable coworker, possibly due to factors in your life that you could not control. The idea of a union is that it insulates you from be…

>> The idea of a union is that it insulates you from being instantly punished for factors you might not be able to control a little better than the market is doing right now (look for news about new parents who were part of the layoffs recently).

Since when has this been the idea of the union? Recall that nearly all union rules are set by seniority, not personal factors like having a bad day or having a child.

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