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Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

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Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#481

Post by yieldcrv »

thekingshorses wrote: post #404
yieldcrv wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the irony, the democrat party will make way more friends if they or their campaign strategy acknowledged that people vote on way more causes than whatever the party is saying makes you a better person. The senate is 50-50, there's never a wave. Time to try something else.

The senate is 50-50 because each state gets 2 seats. Votes are not 50-50.

not sure what you interpreted to write that, its a reflection of the same reality either way

people in the areas where people would need to be swayed, are not.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#482

Post by webnrrd2k »

junofan wrote: post #423
kevin_nisbet wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In general I grow super weary of companies and the government downplaying these sorts of things. It seems to constantly follow the pattern of people saying "It's not that bad" and then only years later do we actually see the horrific health and environmental effects of these sorts of things play out when it's too late for the folks that have been impacted. This isn't really the same, but I've been thinking in simil…

You’re betting other people’s money in the second case, and they have a say.

In a civilized, democratic society that's always true. But it doesn't disqualify the original point.

And it works both ways... Other people have spent trillions of US dollars on, for e.g., the war in the middle east. Some of my tax money went to that. I didn't have the ability to veto it.

There should be a reasonable public debate and then people vote. Very often it involves spending other peoples money. That's just how it works.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#483

Post by themitigating »

slantedview wrote: post #110
themitigating wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know the crash was the result of missing regulations? Republicans are against government regulations,you know "big government" and all that, so why would they do a better job?

> How do you know the crash was the result of missing regulations? "“Would ECP brakes have reduced the severity of this accident? Yes,” Steven Ditmeyer, a former senior official at the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA), told The Lever." https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rule...

This regulation was put into place during the Obama administration ( I don't know if it was implemented) then the Trump administration removed it.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#484

Post by CyberDildonics »

katbyte wrote: post #434
knewter wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it was the Republicans' fault

well it seems Dems put the rule in place, Republicans removed it, and then the Dems didn't act fast enough to re-instate it. if i where to point at who has the most fault it here would be the Republicans.

If someone puts up a tent and someone else purposely burns it down, is the first person partially at fault for not rebuilding it when everyone gets rained on?

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#485

Post by webnrrd2k »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #466
bakuninsbart wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That money was granted to them as a reward for contributing to society. Society has a say in how it can be spent.

They were either granted it or they weren't.

Getting money from society doesn't come with a grant of immunity to it's rules. Are you saying that it should?

If you use your money to start a business involving a giant tire fire in your back yard then society will, rightfully so, have something to say about it.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#486

Post by yunwal »

shadowgovt wrote: post #477
yunwal wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In contrast, this is a big scary smoke cloud of a well-understood volatile compound that we've spilled into the ecosystem in the past In past events, vinyl chloride was not burned, and minimal amounts of it went unrecovered. We also know that hydrogen chloride is a byproduct of burning vinyl chloride, and when combined with water, makes hydrochloric acid, which is not good to come into contact with, and has killed…

> We also have seen some evidence that animals nearby are dropping dead and humans feeling sick. This is precisely the kind of decontextualized data that leads to inaccurate conclusions. Without data on normal animal die-off rates, there's no reason to believe finding dead animals is unusual in this part of town. And of course people feel sick; they've been told they were exposed to a scary chemical. It's going to be…

> But they can also directly sample the water to figure out if the HCL levels are dangerous for human consumption or contact, and I've seen no reporting to suggest that is the case

But they have not yet done this, and tests are a week out. FEMA hasn't provided food or resources to residents of East Palestine. Churches in Youngstown are traveling en masse to provide any kind of support. There's videos of entire coops of chickens dying out. But oh, this is all just a misunderstanding? Sorry, but are you f***ing kidding me? When are you gonna start looking with your eyes rather than listening to what people with clear conflicts-of-interest are telling you? I bet you thought there was nothing to be done about Uvalde too, huh?

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#487

Post by shadowgovt »

yunwal wrote: post #486
shadowgovt wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We also have seen some evidence that animals nearby are dropping dead and humans feeling sick. This is precisely the kind of decontextualized data that leads to inaccurate conclusions. Without data on normal animal die-off rates, there's no reason to believe finding dead animals is unusual in this part of town. And of course people feel sick; they've been told they were exposed to a scary chemical. It's going to be…

> But they can also directly sample the water to figure out if the HCL levels are dangerous for human consumption or contact, and I've seen no reporting to suggest that is the case But they have not yet done this, and tests are a week out. FEMA hasn't provided food or resources to residents of East Palestine. Churches in Youngstown are traveling en masse to provide any kind of support. There's videos of entire coops…

> There's videos of entire coops of chickens dying out

There is currently a rampant bird flu ripping through the US shared between wildlife and farm chickens with a 90%-100% mortality over 48 hours. This is exactly the kind of situation human threat-assessment is bad at.

I know experts make mistakes, but replacing expert wisdom with "the guesses of the masses" is a bad idea in general. I don't trust Norfolk Southern, but I trust a mob a darn sight less.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#488

Post by snozolli »

mkr-hn wrote: post #340
snozolli wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is, since you looked at the vanishingly uncommon phrase alone, giving the false impression of popularity.

You said it's not a thing. It is, in fact, a thing. I've heard it and said it often enough to be sure it's not so uncommon that it's reasonable to say it's not a thing. You also need to keep in mind what Google Ngram is . https://books.google.com/ngrams/info >> "When you enter phrases into the Google Books Ngram Viewer, it displays a graph showing how those phrases have occurred in a corpus of books (e.g., "British E…

It is, in fact, a thing

It isn't. "Grow weary of" is a common phrase. "Grow wary of" are words you can put together, but it's not a common phrase.

I've already posted all the evidence needed, and I grow weary of this misguided argument.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#489

Post by sam0x17 »

LarryMullins wrote: post #363
sam0x17 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah anything short of meeting the strikers demands is insane. I still can't believe that's not what went down. These are possibly some of the most important workers in the country, and they can't even get sick days.

It sure does seem weird that something as fundamentally efficient as trains are supposedly so hard to run economically that treating workers properly just isn't economically feasible. Of course it is feasible, but the transit corps are only interested in maximizing profit and the government backs them up. They could run these trains with 10x the crew, with full top-tier benefits, and still turn a sustainable profit.…

Capital always behaves this way, it isn't really surprising. What's embarrasing is the federal government and the news coverage making it seem like the strike was a huge risk and the only way to deal with it was to forcibly silence them when the obvious solution is to meet their demands. It's like such a thing never crossed their minds, and it's nuts.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#490

Post by MrMan »

olivermarks wrote: post #475
bakuninsbart wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be really interested in why climate change is a hysteria and not well-founded fear. Well founded studies say we are currently on track to reach 4°C higher average temperature by 2100, and a plausible rise in sea levels of that would be around 40 meters. Completely ignoring all other effects, this would be a catastrophe on a level we can hardly achieve otherwise. And 2100 isn't an end date, it would be kind of nic…

'Climate change' is a hysteria because there is so much money involved in green tech. anyone with an ounce of common sense is an environmentalist, but there have been so many predictions of impending doom (which is your fault, repent and atone for your sins) that the genuinely important issues tend to get buried in the tsunamai of doomy junk science that is drip fed to Guardian readers and anyone else who will listen…

this is vile bullshit - we need to invest trillions to possibly arrest climate change, so yes there will be a lot of money in it for someone.
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