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Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

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Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#341

Post by e40 »

nabla9 wrote: post #330
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tad of Yes, Minister wisdom [1]: "The Four Stage Strategy: Stage 1. Nothing is going to happen. Stage 2. Something may happen, but we should do nothing about it. Stage 3. Maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do. Stage 4. Maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXIetP5iak

Legislation passed under President Obama required trains carrying hazardous flammable materials to have ECP brakes. The law was rescinded in 2017 by the Trump administration.

Agreed.

1. Let's not pretend that this was a "crazy" Trump move. Any Republican would have done this.

2. Let's stop pretending both parties are the same. Yes, there are places where they overlap, but there are important places where there is NO overlap. Environmental action is the big area where there is little to no overlap.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#342

Post by rootusrootus »

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #299
RajT88 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems to constantly follow the pattern of people saying "It's not that bad" and then only years later do we actually see the horrific health and environmental effects of these sorts of things play out when it's too late for the folks that have been impacted. I recently learned that smaller versions of this even happen in the Lasalle/Peru area in Illinois with some regularity. It makes the local news, and maybe s…

Better to be a labelled conspiracy wingnut, as someone who maintains justified suspicion of those who hold power in our society (media, corporate barons, politicians), than to be too trusting and assuming all is well.

> labelled conspiracy wingnut, as someone who maintains justified suspicion

If your suspicions were justified then by definition you wouldn't be a conspiracy wingnut. But most of the wingnuts think everything is a conspiracy, which makes them no more useful than a broken clock.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#343

Post by aqme28 »

notch898a wrote: post #192
slantedview wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what's the evidence that this derailment had anything to do with the attempted rail workers strike? AFAIK, the primary issue there was sick leave--and, generally, a more humane work schedule. The workers had many other complaints, including companies forcing workers to drive dangerously long trains with a single person staffing it. That seems absolutely relevant when you have a train car burning and nobody notices.

If you drive a vehicle knowing it is unsafe shouldn't you refuse? Any other vehicle and we would hold the worker accountable for not refusing such a negligent order. The news articles about the rail workers complaining it was unsafe seems to show they are complicit as they continued operating in unsafe conditions anyway.

> If you drive a vehicle knowing it is unsafe shouldn't you refuse?

So a strike then? You’re literally describing what they tried to do.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#344

Post by shkkmo »

xadhominemx wrote: post #285
shkkmo wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The levels required for acute exposure risk ate very high" is factually quite different from "there is no risk from acute exposure." Additionally, an hour is also several orders of magnitude shorter than a week. I'm not saying that the residents are facing concerning exposure levels, however your attempts to dismiss that concern have been either incorrect or factually lacking. If you are trying to correct misinforma…

Parent comment referred to carcinogenicity.

Yes, it is classified as a carncinogen.

> Carcinogenic classifications: EPA-K;A, IARC-1, NIOSH-Ca, NTP-K, OSHA-Ca, TLV-A1

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#345

Post by gowings97 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #245
gowings97 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our fearless US press is too scared to have on-site staff to cover the largest ecological land-based disaster since Three Mile Island. Or they've been told by the regime it's a non-issue? Not sure which is worse, but the outcome is what you see before you; back page coverage a week after the incident. Barely a blurb. Yes, these things take time to fully investigate. Where are the daily updates from the EPA though? Wh…

Before you mock the press maybe take a look at how they are being treated in Ohio. This is from a press conference given by the governor last week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQMLxBpiSu8

I would like to see Ohio law enforcement try that against ABC News, CNN, etc. (they won't)

That's what makes this scary - the few independent journalists that are trying to cover this are being locked out, and the national journalists are nowhere to be found.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#346

Post by rootusrootus »

mkr-hn wrote: post #340
snozolli wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is, since you looked at the vanishingly uncommon phrase alone, giving the false impression of popularity.

You said it's not a thing. It is, in fact, a thing. I've heard it and said it often enough to be sure it's not so uncommon that it's reasonable to say it's not a thing. You also need to keep in mind what Google Ngram is . https://books.google.com/ngrams/info >> "When you enter phrases into the Google Books Ngram Viewer, it displays a graph showing how those phrases have occurred in a corpus of books (e.g., "British E…

Much like how irregardless is now considered a thing. One of these days "mute point" will be a thing too :). I better not look that up, maybe it already is. I often wonder what people think they're saying when they misuse phrases like that.

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#347

Post by TurkishPoptart »

rootusrootus wrote: post #342
TurkishPoptart wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better to be a labelled conspiracy wingnut, as someone who maintains justified suspicion of those who hold power in our society (media, corporate barons, politicians), than to be too trusting and assuming all is well.

> labelled conspiracy wingnut, as someone who maintains justified suspicion If your suspicions were justified then by definition you wouldn't be a conspiracy wingnut. But most of the wingnuts think everything is a conspiracy, which makes them no more useful than a broken clock.

was I a conspiracy wingnut for thinking the war in Iraq was fought on dubious grounds? Don't have time to go down the rabbit hole. Let's just apply Mark Twain's quote and replace "read the newspaper" with "watch/read corporate news". He's still right.

“If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you do, you're misinformed.”

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#349

Post by kevin_nisbet »

jsonne wrote: post #67

I've been seeing content on Tiktok where even 100 miles away they're seeing small dead fish which is apparently according to the folks making the videos a massive red flag. In general I grow super weary of companies and the government downplaying these sorts of things. It seems to constantly follow the pattern of people saying "It's not that bad" and then only years later do we actually see the horrific health and en…

> In general I grow super weary of companies and the government downplaying these sorts of things. It seems to constantly follow the pattern of people saying "It's not that bad" and then only years later do we actually see the horrific health and environmental effects of these sorts of things play out when it's too late for the folks that have been impacted. This isn't really the same, but I've been thinking in similar areas a lot lately in the context of climate change, and the debate around climate change, although debating any topic doesn't change many minds.

If you bet on the scientific majority around climate change being wrong / non-existent / something we can't control, and end up being wrong, then the worst case scenario we make the planet uninhabitable (I'm going to the extreme here).

If you bet that climate change exists and is man-made and end up wrong, we've unnecessarily invested a huge amount of money into reducing pollution, more efficient buildings / manufacturing / transport, and reduce the dependence on a limited set of oil producers to be able to hold supply of oil over nations.

For something more immediate like health concerns with this derailment, is should the officials be more willing to be wrong? And message as such?

Re: Health concerns grow in East Palestine, Ohio, after train derailment

#350

Post by rootusrootus »

WheatMillington wrote: post #269
anotherman554 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I've been seeing content on Tiktok where even 100 miles away they're seeing small dead fish which is apparently according to the folks making the videos a massive red flag." I wouldn't bother watching a Tiktok video unless the video maker is an environmental professional. Otherwise this is just the blind leading the blind. Here's a legal definition of environmental professional used by developers when they do a envi…

"hey look, here's a bunch of dead fish that weren't here yesterday" "show me your degree"

"Prove it." would be my first respones. Followed by "Why are they dead?" and "Did you kill them yourself?" and "How often have you found dead fish anywhere?" and "How often do you look?" and "What killed these fish specifically?" etc

I guess falling back to "show me your degree" might be an easy way to answer all those questions at once.

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