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50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

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Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#61

Post by FpUser »

trasz3 wrote: post #26
nailer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. Also how little tech workers in India care about what they do. This isn't a racial observation - Indians outside India are just as conscientious as Asians or Europeans are and are not included in this observation. Rather it's a cultural observation that's probably come about as a result of the outsourcing cultu…

>tech workers in India care about what they do Are you trying to say the Indian tech workers have much more adult attitude to their employment, as opposed to their western friends who are happy to sacrifice themselves ad maiorem corpo gloriam?

There is a big difference between doing 2 pieces of whatever with high quality and refusing to do 5 vs just doing crappy job in general

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#62

Post by rmah »

smoldesu wrote: post #40
satvikpendem wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've heard, China also used to be like that, sending out cheap samples that didn't meet the specification, and the manufacturers there would tell you that they'd do it correctly next time, just for the same thing to happen again. But eventually they were able to do a good job. Give it time, Indian manufacturing is simply not as advanced as China's right now but it will be if enough investment is made.

China's government effectively owns all of those factories. When something goes wrong, they put their hands directly into the machine to fix it. Hopefully India's government doesn't follow in their footsteps, Apple's Chinese manufacturers have a spotty track record vis-a-vis exploiting executive power.

Having dealt with multiple electronics component and assembly factories in china... um, no. The government does not "effectively own" all those factories. And no, they do not step in to fix problems.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#63

Post by randcraw »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #27

There are scams at every single level in the Indian system. Everybody wants a cut and some extra to do their job. It is maybe one of the worst places to manufacture in the world. I know Apple needs to diversify but Vietnam and other such countries might be a better fit. The work ethic is severely lacking in India.

Similar difficulties pervade the supply chain as it passes through India, where intermediates expect to 'take a taste' of the product's value. Just try to personally carry new electronics into the country without greasing a palm or two.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#64

Post by firstfewshells »

This is like comparing the code written by an experienced 20 year veteran to the code written by a fresh graduate. Give it time, India will catch up. Lot of people in the comments taking a dig at the work ethic of people in India when most of them will cry a river if asked by their employer to RTO 2 days a week.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#65

Post by rr888 »

kalesh wrote: post #21

I am an entrepreneur & a small business owner in India. I did a small manufacturing in China & was blown away by their professionalism. The article mentions - `Chinese suppliers had a totally different attitude, aiming to exceed the Cupertino company’s expectations` - this is so true. In India, most manufacturing companies or businesses are trying to sell what they have or can produce (without any attention to detail…

This can be overcome. I know in the UK it was similar, 60s and 70s manufacturing quality was very poor. In the 80s factories started with quality management processes, 9001 etc and quality really dramatically improved.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#66

Post by naravara »

jpgvm wrote: post #4

Thing is this is also still the really basic stuff. It's only going to get worse as they attempt to shift more complicated things. People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China. For certain products the only reasonable alternatives to China are going to be South Korea and Japan in the medium term as they are the only other hubs with the required sophisticatio…

> People tend to drastically underestimate the both the scale and sophistication of manufacturing in China.

I doubt Apple is underestimating it. Shenzhen wasn't built in a day. They will need to get their reps in before they can start down the path to match China on quality. Apple probably figures it's worth the up front cost to harden against geopolitical risk.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#67

Post by malfist »

blobbers wrote: post #25

Anyone who's read outsourced code can vouch for the similar QC problems. I work with a lot of great Indian software developers; none of them worked IN India itself; they tend to be the ones that are skilled enough to quickly realize they're able to command massively higher wages by leaving India. India, despite it's reputation as a software outsourcing location has never been able to produce exportable quality beside…

I say this as the whitest white man ever, so please correct me if I'm being discriminatory.

I understand it's also a culture issue. India has a culture of never telling clients "no" for anything, even if they know they can't do it. So you ask for something insanely complex, and your contractor in India will throw a mountain of buggy code at you. I wouldn't be surprise if that's also the issue here.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#68

Post by eldaisfish »

jen729w wrote: post #58
eldaisfish wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly suggest not calling India's pharma industry a success. It is rife with terrible quality and government-sponsored coverups. Here is one book that goes into some detail:Bottle of Lies: Ranbaxy and the Dark Side of Indian Pharma Many children lost their lives in Gambia and Uzbekistan after consuming tainted cough syrup made in India. The worst part is not the error, it is the fact that indian regulators…

We're in Australia and after reading that book we'll go out of our way to not buy generics manufactured in India. Weirdly, it doesn't seem like a regulatory requirement to print the country of manufacture on the box. All of our food is clearly labelled but not pharmaceuticals? An odd omission. I speak as someone who worked in India -- Bangalore, in the IT sector -- for 2 years. I loved the place and the people. But f…

the disappointing thing is that India can absolutely dominate the sector and supply cheap generics to poor countries. They have the expertise and supply chains. All while making a tidy profit.

Instead, greed and crony capitalism takes over and increasingly, the indian government is getting increasingly involved, reacting to any criticism in a churlish manner.

Really sad to see the wasted potential in a country like India. I suspect this is cultural and not easy to fix.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#69

Post by delecti »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #35
blobbers wrote: post #25

Anyone who's read outsourced code can vouch for the similar QC problems. I work with a lot of great Indian software developers; none of them worked IN India itself; they tend to be the ones that are skilled enough to quickly realize they're able to command massively higher wages by leaving India. India, despite it's reputation as a software outsourcing location has never been able to produce exportable quality beside…

I suspect that most people who have interacted with remote teams based in India, have had the same experiences. I'm honestly surprised that Apple didn't choose Vietnam or Indonesia over India.

The worst I could say about the India based teams I've worked with is that some were to-the-letter to a fault. Anything not explicitly stated was skipped, where you'd typically expect a dev to fill in the unstated but obvious things that you only discover while working a task.

But that was at Amazon. At my current gig, the India based teams are great. Not quite up to the standards of the US teams, but I'm sure they're more cost effective. They're also hungry for more interesting responsibilities, and are proactively improving things. It makes me think that Amazon just had shitty management over there.

Re: 50% rejection rate for iPhone casings produced in India shows Apple’s challenge

#70

Post by kalesh »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #53
kalesh wrote: post #21

I am an entrepreneur & a small business owner in India. I did a small manufacturing in China & was blown away by their professionalism. The article mentions - `Chinese suppliers had a totally different attitude, aiming to exceed the Cupertino company’s expectations` - this is so true. In India, most manufacturing companies or businesses are trying to sell what they have or can produce (without any attention to detail…

> I am an entrepreneur & a small business owner in India. I did a small manufacturing in China & was blown away by their professionalism. The article mentions - `Chinese suppliers had a totally different attitude, aiming to exceed the Cupertino company’s expectations` - this is so true. This varies massively from one CM to the next. If you can get your foot in the door at the higher tier CMs, the professionalism and…

Not my experience. I was working on my clothing startup with initial investment of about ~$30,000 USD.

INDIA - Met at least 12-15 manufactures in India (medium to large scale, $1m ARR to $50m ARR). Only a 1-2 of these had any catalogs or samples of different fabric compositions. Most wanted an advance to kick-start the process. Sampling was a total failure with three of these.

CHINA - Contacted about 10 manufactures in China via Alibaba. Each one of them had a very detailed catalog of anywhere in between 10-50 fabric compositions. Shipped to my home in a week for just $100.

It was Peru where I got the garments manufactured. It did cost me about 20-30% more but it was very satisfactory.

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