Live data from Hacker News

BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

theguardian.com

321–330 of 425 posts

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to criticize the president is not what's important here, and in fact a focus on that as being some sort of golden metric is also another hurdle in properly understanding China. This is part of the typical "dictatorship-vs-democracy" dichotomy thought that I'm criticizing for not being a good fit for China. Concretely: yes in China there is censorship, and yes you can't just criticize the president. Howeve…

Censorship is one thing, but then I read reports of things like this: https://hongkongfp.com/2022/09/26/father-of-chinese-ink-girl... Personally, I could not tolerate living in a country where I have to watch what I say out of fear of me and my family ending up in prison for years. (Or in an internment camp, depending on my ethnicity.) Perhaps your Australian didn’t think they had anything interesting to speak out ab…

As I said earlier, I never claimed that China has no problems, and I welcome genuine efforts to improve the human rights situation in China. But current efforts are simply not genuine and are merely geopolitical attacks disguised as human rights concerns.

To make a comparison: the US also has many grave human rights abuses, including jailing people for saying "too interesting" things. But the US is not painted as some human rights abuse hellhole. It's clear that in the minds of many, human rights abuses in western countries can be bad but are at least redeemable or even incidental, while Chinese sins are inherent, systematic and unforgivable.

And again: here you hold political rights as the highest goal. I dispute this notion. This "one might be singing a different tune" can be reflected right back at you: if you've experienced how it is like to live in a country that has had 150 years of war and poverty, where eating your next meal is not guaranteed, with western "democratic" countries looting your treasures (and still having them on display in foreign museums today) back then when your country was itself dabbling in introducing democracy and republicanism, then maybe you would value safety and economic prosperity way more than you do now.

Said differently: when you are poor, you are not free, period. The ability to vote has no value on an empty stomach with thugs roaming the streets. The Chinese government has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty, which is also a big human rights improvement. That does not excuse bad things, but it's worth putting things in perspective, something which many refuse to do because few are willing to hold an honest conversation about China.

> By the way, a decade ago, Russian president Dmitri Medvedev said that Russia had “democracy with Russian attributes,” and that Russia had to be understood on its own terms. Of course, it was just a convenient fig leaf for the erosion of freedoms and consolidation of power happening behind the scenes. We can all see where Russia is today.

Whatever problems you have with Russia has got nothing to do with China. Saying that "X has problem A, so Y must also have problem A" is a fallacy. Correlation is not causation.

> I am glad Chinese people are still able to affect policy, but I wonder how long that will last.

The ability to affect policy has increased over years, not decreased. In the past 15 years, government has improved systems to consult citizen.

This notion of yours have been around for at least 10 years. But when you ask Chinese how many of them would rather live in 25-30 years ago, you will not find many.

> If there is a war with Taiwan, will the government tolerate dissent?

You got this entirely backwards. Many people in China support reunification with Taiwan. If Xi Jingping announces today that he accepts Taiwanese independence, then he'll be overthrown tomorrow and replaced with another government that supports reunification.

Also, dropping this here: https://asiatimes.com/2022/11/harvard-guru-gives-biden-a-d-f... Dr. William Overholt, Harvard professor: "we are creating the problem that we think we’re trying to deter." In other words, all this talk about China invading Taiwan, and taking actions to "deter" China from invading Taiwan, incentivizes China to invade — because people fundamentally misread China's relationship with Taiwan. But the US government knows this and is deliberately stirring things up, breaking decades of diplomatic agreements, in order to goad China into shooting first so that the US can have a war with China while claiming moral superiority.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#322
post #316
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not torrented in at least a decade, and I don't remember seeing magnet links inline in text like that. Certainly don't miss those hours of waiting for an ISO to download only to find it's all corrupt, or a record label plant, or a handheld recording of a cinema screen...

> Certainly don't miss those hours of waiting I think you mean 2 decades. I haven't waited an hour for anything to download since I used to grab bootleg concerts that were very poorly seeded in the early/mid aughts.

Some of us rural nerds are only recently coming off the dialups

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship is one thing, but then I read reports of things like this: https://hongkongfp.com/2022/09/26/father-of-chinese-ink-girl... Personally, I could not tolerate living in a country where I have to watch what I say out of fear of me and my family ending up in prison for years. (Or in an internment camp, depending on my ethnicity.) Perhaps your Australian didn’t think they had anything interesting to speak out ab…

As I said earlier, I never claimed that China has no problems, and I welcome genuine efforts to improve the human rights situation in China. But current efforts are simply not genuine and are merely geopolitical attacks disguised as human rights concerns. To make a comparison: the US also has many grave human rights abuses, including jailing people for saying "too interesting" things. But the US is not painted as som…

> You got this entirely backwards.

I did not: I am fully aware of this fact. However, while the majority of people in China may support a war with Taiwan, many will not. What will happen to those that oppose it? Will they be allowed to protest in the streets, or will they be brutally repressed? I know where I'd put my money.

As to everything else, China should be commended for bringing so many people out of poverty. But authoritarian regimes are not sustainable. Give too much power to one man, and he almost invariably gets it in his head that he is the state, and starts repressing, pogromming, and dismantling any person or institution that gets in his way. (Observe that Xi has already eliminated presidential term limits.)

I was born in Russia. The Soviet Union brought many millions out of poverty, including some of my direct ancestors. Was it all worth it in the end, though? I'm not so sure. The sins of the Soviet government ruined millions of lives and lead the country to where it is today: a crippled, fascistic, frothing-at-the-mouth oligarchy. Perhaps that's what's in store for China in the future. I really hope it manages to avoid this fate, but I'm not optimistic.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#324
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

selective law enforcement truly undermines the rule of law and legitimacy of institutions. it turns the rule of law into rule by law: rulers and the ruled it creates a class of people who are not subjected to the law while unleashing "order" on the powerless. it's all hidden behind the curtain and turn a society into nothing more than "might makes right". the vail is lifted whenever the inconsistencies are exposed wh…

'True rule of law' in that sense is impossible unless there is some superior authority that can physically prevent legislators/judiciary/executive from writing, or attempting to enforce, contradictory or unenforceable laws. Which of course is a paradox as the superior authority cannot be bound by written laws in order to do this.

Juries, perhaps?

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#325
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@FooBarWidget, I take it you're not uighur?

I'm not, but I'm in contact with a Uyhur as well as a non-Uyghur Xinjiang resident, and I've researched this topic for a long time. See also my other reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34789836 TLDR: heavy-handed anti-terrorism response, even if it deserves criticism, is not at all the same as "millions in concentration camps", "forced labor" or even "genocide". Many allegations you read in the media are gra…

Modi apologists seem to make similar attacks on the media and the west. They claim that the media is biased and out to get him, any criticism of him is anti-national and so on.

You're claiming that the Uighur women that got forcibly sterilized are terrorists? Modi similarly uses the terrorism bogeyman to suppress criticism. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/10/how-terrorism-...)

And why isn't it easy for western journalists to report from Xinjiang, if it is as you describe it, a benign situation?

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#326
I think it's also fair to discuss how some of the people who support the BJP and are part of the RSS export their fascist beliefs to places like UK, Canada, USA. These people are actively disturbing decades-long inter-community peace. What I don't understand is if Modi is in power and RSS is given carte blanche, why do these people move abroad and keep hold of their regressive views and hate.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#327
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What post-colonial narrative does BBC spew? If you see BBC regional languages programs, you will see that it platforms RSS-BJP's Hindu Nationalistic rhetoric to a far greater degree.

Western notions of what liberal democracy should look like (multi-cultural, multi-religious, etc.) is a colonial imposition on India: https://unherd.com/2021/04/the-culture-wars-of-post-colonial...

It's not so much Western notions of what liberal democracy should look like, but rather the Western notion that liberal democracy is superior/sacrosanct.

"Liberal democracy" has a very specific meaning — or at least, it has to, or else there's no common language to describe these things. What India is engaging in is objectively not liberal democracy, it's illiberal democracy[1], but that can be okay. The fact that "illiberal democracy is bad" is the Western notion / post-colonial imposition on an independent India.

I personally disagree with most Indians, and tend to prefer liberal democracies, but that's my Western notion (and I say that as an ethnic Indian that went to high school in India, but has settled down in America).

[1] Poland, Hungary, and arguably Turkey are also notable examples of increasingly illiberal democracies

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think there is a rise in fascist actions and rhetoric in India? And that the majority of Indians are threatened by this? Thanks for correcting me on OBC and Dalits. The framework is definitely problematic. And it adds another layer of complexity to racial, religious, and economic demographics. Thanks for prompting me to learn more about this. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/attitudes-ab...

I would hesitate to characterize everything happening as fascist since that's a loaded term and I think it brings in a lot of baggage when transposed cross-culturally that confuses more than it clears up. I think there has been a rise in extremism and political violence that is largely, but not exclusively, driven by the hard right. And I think Modi has a particularly callous, realpolitik approach to governance that…

Just wanted to chime in and say that this was a good read. Reminded me of reading editorials when I was younger. I agree with most of these points, and especially appreciate the fact that you present a nuanced view. Too often, western views are translated directly to other places and result can be inaccurate assessments.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hesitate to characterize everything happening as fascist since that's a loaded term and I think it brings in a lot of baggage when transposed cross-culturally that confuses more than it clears up. I think there has been a rise in extremism and political violence that is largely, but not exclusively, driven by the hard right. And I think Modi has a particularly callous, realpolitik approach to governance that…

So it is fascism in all but name? Gotcha.

Either you're being reductionist on purpose, or the reply above just flew over your head.

Re: BBC offices in India raided by tax officials amid Modi documentary fallout

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because our friends have some nasty people in every community that are still willing to instigate and use this as a tool

Which means it sounds more like living under tyranny through threat of violence more than harmony.

no riots happen everywhere, just look at the UK in 2011, depends on if people have the tools and venom to spread them
Post reply on HN