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Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

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Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#81

Post by dls2016 »

RivieraKid wrote: post #72
elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

The theoretical reasoning behind unions is that they counteract the market power of companies over employees. If this market power assymetry doesn't exist (for example software engineers in San Francisco), unions are not beneficial to the society but at least slightly beneficial to the average union member assuming the union is making good decisions. Because more market power is always better than less market power.…

> for example software engineers in San Francisco

Uhm... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#82

Post by hef19898 »

leereeves wrote: post #57
hef19898 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those heirs are the richest people in Europe, owning everything from VW and Porsche to BMW and a bunch of other household names. And those few percent are coming off from quite huge figures...

Yeah, the lack of new businesses is a big problem in Europe. Regulations and taxation kill them or drive them out of Europe. But I was speaking from a US perspective (since I'm from the US and this story is about the US), and our biggest, most profitable businesses are mostly under fifty years old, not over.

That is an interesting way to read my comment so.

It is not regulation nor taxes that make it hard for "tech" start ups in Europe. It is harder access to Venture Capital and smaller adressable markets, overall the European Market is huge, but harder to access due to language barriers.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#83

Post by westpfelia »

mc32 wrote: post #63
quadrifoliate wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exact same things could be said about companies themselves. "The structure of companies is such that it facilitates and encourages seniority as well as corruption including ties to the mob. It's no accident that companies are targets of corruption by the feds [1] for various forms of malfeasance." You're basically saying that crime exists among groups of people where there is a power differential. I mean, sure? I…

Union crime _is_ white collar crime (they may represent blue collar workers but the reps are starched white collar workers --and aside from intimidation and other forms of violence). But why are Unions such magnets for corruption? For corporations you have various forms of oversight like SEC, SOX, and many others. In unions there is more of an unspoken code not to whistleblow because they are "you" and you don't wann…

EXACTLY no one can name a single crime committed by a company. Its only the union orgs within them. Look at Enron. The only crime commited by Enron was in its ultra left wing accounting depts. Those poor C levels were nothing but heros!

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#85

Post by akerl_ »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

As individuals negotiating with a business, you’re always going to be at a massive disadvantage due to the balance of resources. The company is bigger than the people you’re building relationships with.

Unions, done well, perform a lot of similar functions to insurance providers: they allow many people to collectively bargain in a way that can level the playing field in negotiations.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#86

Post by malermeister »

leereeves wrote: post #76
malermeister wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And most of them are also started by heirs of generational wealth. Just because the companies change doesn't mean the owners do.

Who specifically are you thinking of? Every founder I can think of was born in the middle or upper middle class.

Elon Musk's dad was a South African millionaire.

Bill Gates' mom was on the board of directors of a bank and gave him an intro to IBM execs. [0]

Bezos parents invested 250k to fund Amazon. [1]

Upper middle class is generational wealth already if it passes a generation.

[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/05/how-bill-gates-mother-influe...

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/02/how-jeff-bezos-got-his-paren...

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#87

Post by elicash »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #43

Tesla should take the initiative and bring in a co-operative German-style union or they are going to get stuck with an antagonistic UAW or similar.

This is actually the same union that Starbucks workers are organizing with -- Workers United, which is an SEIU affiliate. I wonder if the Starbucks workers in Buffalo are helping this group of workers out.

Also, here's what their website says about whether they are anti-Tesla:

> No! We are pro-Tesla and pro-union. We want to work at Tesla and make it our career. We want Tesla to be the best it can be and a place where we can have successful and sustainable careers. If we didn't care about the company we wouldn't be putting this work into changing it for the better.

https://tesla-workers-united.squarespace.com/faq

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#88

Post by maxerickson »

alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

The UAW guide to UAW made vehicles is hardly comprehensive. Lots of automakers building cars in the US in factories not in the UAW.

https://region1.uaw.org/member-info-0/2022-uaw-union-built-v...

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#89

Post by jacquesm »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Do you enjoy free Saturdays? Paternity leave? Maternity leave? A pension? Health insurance? Holidays? A 40 hour work week? A safe working environment? Workplace training programs?

And so on. All of these and more are the result of unions. You by your lonesome wouldn't stand a chance negotiating all of the above with the captains of industry, no matter how rare your talents.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#90

Post by dfxm12 »

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Probably. I think you should start by understanding the workers' conditions and demands better. Your post mentions job security and puts in quotes, and yeah, that is one thing the workers mentioned, but they've talked about more, too.

If you've been treated with dignity and fairly compensated for your effort at your previous jobs, that's great! Not every employer is like that, though, and no amount of personal relationships can change them. In that situation, you gotta demand it together with your fellow worker.

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