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India’s government wants total control of the internet

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Re: India’s government wants total control of the internet

#181

Post by salawat »

meltyness wrote: post #96
CommanderData wrote: post #13

The documentary produced by the BBC "The Modi Question", was uploaded onto YouTube several times the week of release but taken down by request of the Indian Government. I was astonished a foreign entity can stop the world watching something if they don't like it, it wasn't just geo blocked it was removed off YouTube.

In the same vein, YouTube and the rest of big media (to virtually no fanfare or protest) blocked The RT for their supposed ties -- which would be fine except that RT's ties were covert. Sanctions are sanctions, but is RT to simply stop paying taxes? This is like wholesale embargo, jamming, and further insulates the Russian government from the reality of their actions. I expect the high road from my country's communic…

...Platform companies are the basis of power in the modern world. Essentially an unstoppable superweapon.

What makes you think those in power won't abuse them as early and often as possible?

Re: India’s government wants total control of the internet

#182

Post by MichaelZuo »

Retric wrote: post #174
MichaelZuo wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link to the estimate?

YouTube revenue got a huge bump in 2021 which is when that wildly profitable estimate was given. I don’t have specific estimates I can link to, but I’ve seen statements like this fairly regularly: There are more questions around YouTube’s profitability, but he said the general view was that it was “modestly profitable but not dramatically so.” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/technology/youtube-financ... Of course…

> YouTube revenue got a huge bump in 2021 which is when that wildly profitable estimate was given. I don’t have specific estimates I can link to...

What is 'that wildly profitable estimate' then?

Re: India’s government wants total control of the internet

#183

Post by yutijke »

lostmsu wrote: post #179
yutijke wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the two-party democracy of US, India has a multitude of political parties holding power at the state level. Many of these parties (AAP, TMC, DMK, etc) whip BJP's arse in state elections. There are talks of a third party AAP gaining enough support to contest at a National level in the future. There has been no evidence of BJP rigging National or state elections until now. In fact parties like TMC which progress…

> Unlike the two-party democracy of US, India has a multitude of political parties holding power at the state level. Many of these parties (AAP, TMC, DMK, etc) whip BJP's arse in state elections. There are talks of a third party AAP gaining enough support to contest at a National level in the future. This is basically the state in Russia. I would not call Russia a democracy therefore your argument does not convince m…

If there is a large scale pogrom of journalists who criticise the government then there would be a chilling effect on critical coverage of the government. Large scale protests wouldn't exist and wouldn't be successful.

Your statement does not jibe well with the lived reality of most Indians. We have plenty of access to critical coverage of the ruling party and its leader. Plenty of journalists are living their lives, paying rent and venting out their frustrations against the government on twitter without being arrested.

A sample of Indian publications that are critical of BJP:

https://www.deccanherald.com/national/national-politics/govt...

https://caravanmagazine.in/politics/hindutva-pop-hate

https://www.newslaundry.com/2022/12/24/aaj-tak-and-india-tv-...

https://thewire.in/politics/twitter-amit-malviya-bjp-it-cell...

https://thewire.in/politics/if-rahul-gandhi-were-really-irre...

https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/bjp-accused-of-using-app-tek-fo... and https://restofworld.org/2022/the-wire-vs-meta-india/ - This bit of critical journalism was found to be outright creative writing. But since you Anglos don't trust Indians on how their own country works maybe check out Alex Stamos of the Stanford Cyber Policy Center on this piece of news. I couldn't care less about the guy but maybe you will give his words weight. The reason I am giving this example is because this is a clear cut example of journalists publishing literal fake news critical of the governement and going about their lives without imprisonment and consequences.

Time to time a corrupt politician tries to throw around their weight and gets people arrested, but our legal system typically strikes down the case. This is a problem with every political party in India but we don't have mass imprisonment of journalists critical of BJP as some publications may want you to think.

Re: India’s government wants total control of the internet

#184

Post by viewtransform »

lostmsu wrote: post #178
throwawayxx123 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying Supreme court of India is in bed with Modi? That is a very strong accusation. Modi didn't investigate himself and give himself a clean chit. He was been scrutinised by Supreme Court of India multiple times. And we have much better functioning courts. Many BJP party members who has been found guilty of various things have been punished by Courts. This BBC propaganda piece has been made now only because…

> war mongering western governments What do you mean?

ref is to India's stance on Ukraine war.

Re: India’s government wants total control of the internet

#185

Post by lostmsu »

yutijke wrote: post #183
lostmsu wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike the two-party democracy of US, India has a multitude of political parties holding power at the state level. Many of these parties (AAP, TMC, DMK, etc) whip BJP's arse in state elections. There are talks of a third party AAP gaining enough support to contest at a National level in the future. This is basically the state in Russia. I would not call Russia a democracy therefore your argument does not convince m…

If there is a large scale pogrom of journalists who criticise the government then there would be a chilling effect on critical coverage of the government. Large scale protests wouldn't exist and wouldn't be successful. Your statement does not jibe well with the lived reality of most Indians. We have plenty of access to critical coverage of the ruling party and its leader. Plenty of journalists are living their lives,…

> Your statement does not jibe well with the lived reality of most Indians. We have plenty of access to critical coverage of the ruling party and its leader.

Still matches Russia until about 2019 (btw 5 years after initial invasion) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/06/russian-parlia... , which coincidentally was 9 years after it became clear to me personally it was a totalitarian state.

> But since you Anglos don't trust Indians

Laughable to hear, considering I am from Russia, and have hands-on experience, that is very relatable with the treatment of student-led protests. Also considering, that you are coming from a state, that requests videos to be removed from YouTube for political reasons (BTW also 100% same as Russia), toward the state that does not.

> The reason I am giving this example is because this is a clear cut example of journalists publishing literal fake news critical of the government and going about their lives without imprisonment and consequences.

I hope you understand, that this argument has no logical bearing on the issue. E.g. from `P(A)`, `P(B)`, and `not B` it does not follow, than `not A`. I hope I don't need to explain what P, A and B in this case.

In regards for the video, it does not even present a one-sided story. E.g. it mentions the absolution of Modi by Supreme Court on the lack of evidence ground. But the rest of the video makes a compelling case why that absolution is hard to trust.

Re: India’s government wants total control of the internet

#187

Post by davoneus »

throwawayxx123 wrote: post #162
albertopv wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An illiberal democracy can't be a true democracy. If power can control what news and data you get, showing only positive ones, you won't really be able to judge their administration skills. If so, elections will be unjust and unfair. Countries like India and Turkey can't be really considered as true democracies at the moment, people have no more power over their governments.

India is okay. We have better democracy than both UK and USA.

Hell, India's democracy damn well should be; it had a chance to learn from the US and others mistakes. That said, Indian democracy is a pale imitation to post WW2 European democracies.

Re: India’s government wants total control of the internet

#188

Post by newswasboring »

wkat4242 wrote: post #122
newswasboring wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, this is sort of the reality we are living in. People are subscribing to a 100 different services. Niche streaming services are very popular, but I do agree you have to be the best at your niche to be viable. The whole profitability point you made is completely valid. There are indeed no numbers that I am aware of that say these are profitable.

Really? I subscribe to maybe 10 services in my place. Energy, Internet, Mobile, VPS, and a couple of websites and patreons. No TV or streaming. And spotify I do on and off (when they have an offer for 3 months for 10 bucks). As soon as a paid service goes subscription-only I drop it generally unless I really really need it. I know not everyone is as anti-subscription as I am, but really, 100? Anything that pays "auto…

I thought it was understood that 100 was an exaggeration. But yes in my circle almost everyone has 5-6 media subscriptions. Some niche some not.

Re: India’s government wants total control of the internet

#189

Post by unmole »

throwawayxx123 wrote: post #166
eldaisfish wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, i reject this idea entirely. Court judgements are made by humans and humans err. This is not the binary you are making it out to be. Indian courts are hamstrung by the rest of the Indian legal system and are routinely used to silence dissent and harass the small fry.

This is not true. Indian courts are very much functional and is not elected by politicians. So they are not as hamstrung as any US courts if you are going to start comparing. Only issue is the long delays involved.

> not elected by politicians.

All judicial appointments need to be approved by the government. Retired judges get plum political appointments including to the Rajya Sabha.

Re: India’s government wants total control of the internet

#190

Post by throwawayxx123 »

unmole wrote: post #189
throwawayxx123 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. Indian courts are very much functional and is not elected by politicians. So they are not as hamstrung as any US courts if you are going to start comparing. Only issue is the long delays involved.

> not elected by politicians. All judicial appointments need to be approved by the government. Retired judges get plum political appointments including to the Rajya Sabha.

Approved doesn't mean elected via political campaigning. So judges doesn't need to take any political stance to make any political party happy. Of course there is the issue of after retirement appointments. But not every judge does that. Things won't become better if people don't put pressure on representatives to make ethical laws.
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