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Let Teenagers Sleep

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#271

Post by blangk »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

I agree mostly with your points, but what they describe is the 'schooling system' and not an education system. Its the Prussian model or the industrial age factory model of education.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#272

Post by sdiupIGPWEfh »

msla wrote: post #184
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

Thinking everything is a conspiracy is giving the assholes too much credit. The education system is an education system. It's bad because it's underfunded, mismanaged, and pulled in multiple directions for political reasons, not to mention occasionally tasked with impossible jobs, such as keeping a roomful of emotionally disturbed children going in the same direction using only one underpaid teacher and a couple para…

I read it as less conspiracy and more an example of, "The purpose of a system is what it does." Sure, it's a nasty, cynical take, but to some approximation, perhaps it may as well be true.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#273

Post by chasd00 »

Jun8 wrote: post #15

This post on the front page was SO timely for us! My son (16) was feeling very sleepy and tired the past week. On Friday he took a brief nap at 5pm, but woke up next morning, after 15 hours. This morning when I went to wake him up at 6am he just couldn’t make it so I let him stay at home. This never happened before.

i've had this happen a few times each semester, I go to wake up my 13 year old for school and the look on his face is just pure exhaustion. I just say "dude, go back to sleep" and around noon he gets up and comes wandering into my office. It may be growth spurts or just staying up too late after bedtime but some days i just let him sleep. There's nothing happening at school he can't handle the next day anyway.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#274

Post by CadmiumYellow »

xyzelement wrote: post #128
avgcorrection wrote: post #93

Pet peeve of mine: some older adults are proud that they get up early. And that’s OK in isolation. The problem though is that older adults rule society moreso than younger adults, and certainly compared to teenagers. So for many older adults it feels natural to go to bed early and to get up early. But then we as a society confuse that with universal “good behavior”/good character, so everyone has to dance to that tun…

I do think there's actual correlation between getting up earlier and achievement. I don't know many successful people who get up super late. Don't know if that's correlation or causation, just that there's something to getting up early to crush it.

I'm convinced that that correlation has more to do with most of society functioning on a morning-oriented schedule. Night owls are often chronically sleep deprived and prevented from working during their peak hours. Anecdotally I do know a few people who are successful in the entertainment industry and most of them are serious night owls - I would imagine that they're suited to that kind of schedule the same way morning people are suited to the schedule of school or a corporate environment.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#275

Post by anthomtb »

joezydeco wrote: post #145
gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

This is exactly why. We've been at our administrators for years and the response always is "the bus routes" but in reality it's because of the sports schedules. High school sports is a drain on the educational system, plain and simple. It lacks equity - an disproportionate amount of money is spent on very few children. The football coach in our HS has a Vice Principal title, so he doesn't have to teach classes but kn…

Does what you are saying about sports also apply to theater and music?

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#276

Post by Etheryte »

gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

I'm not convinced this is the real root cause, this is just a reasonable sounding theory that's easy to nod along to. Other countries don't follow this time pattern and have extra curricular activities and nonsense school hours all the same. As a single data point, where I'm from you usually have a gap after school so you can do your homework and then you do extra activities in the evening. Transportation is handled by public transport so everyone can come and go as they need and please.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#277

Post by RheingoldRiver »

tmpz22 wrote: post #40

As a teenager I used to stay up until 2-3am watching movies on my ipod touch - which had a ludicrously small screen by todays standards. I'm in favor of moving back start times but we should also better study and educate on the consequences of bad personal habits.

Is it "bad personal habits" though? If I wasn't staying up to 1-2am reading, I was lying in bed waiting to fall asleep until 1-2am with my eyes closed, bored to tears and completely miserable. So you tell me which I should have been doing.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#279

Post by hintymad »

Isn't it that most of the elite high-school students in the bay area will not have the luxury of going to be bed before midnight? 10+ APs, multiple ECs, at least one sports team, perfect GPAs... Even smart kids have to sleep less to achieve more. I personally don't think it's worth it, but it is what it is.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#280

Post by chongli »

gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

That's really strange. Where I live the high schools do not provide bus service at all. There are city bus stops in front of the high schools and high school students get a big discount when they buy a student transit pass.

Yet we still have the high school students starting at ungodly early hours in the morning!

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