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Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

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Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#531

Post by mritchie712 »

erentz wrote: post #3

Couple of interesting twitter threads on this from Tyler (The Drive). He suggests this has been coming/happening for some time. https://twitter.com/aviation_intel/status/162414986417840128... Also that we are seeing a lot more now because we have turned down/off the filters on the radars. Which means also we can expect a lot more false positives. https://twitter.com/aviation_intel/status/162461466198661120...

> asleep at the wheel with this threat the DoD has been

That's easy to say, but does anyone know how many objects appear when you drop the filter? Yes, the military has a huge budget, but it's not unlimited. My guess is when you lower the filter you're met with so many objects that you couldn't possibly address them all with the resources you have available.

Imagine you have 10 resources to deploy and a screen with 100 objects to investigate. You lower the filter and there are now a million objects to investigate. It's not hard to understand why the filters were in place and saying they were "asleep" is silly. There have probably been people at the DoD asking for more resources ($) to remove the filters for years.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#532

Post by frankfrankfrank »

sph wrote: post #279
dirtyid wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PLA use USN activities in SCS and recon off her shores for training as well but US activities persist because there's mutual intelligence gathering going on, usually favouring the gatherer since the trade is info on one ISR platform vs said ISR platform gathering from host of sources. PLA probably knows alot about US P8s but those P8s learn about PLA navy, air bases, coastal defenses, radars etc. PRC can't simply shu…

Not enough acronyms in your comment. EDIT: judging from your post history, I wonder if you're a ChatGPT bot trained on US military documents. You do love the lingo and unnecessary acronyms.

It’s just typical pretentiousness common in government related things, by people who use it as cover for mediocrity, especially when talking to laypeople.

It’s intentional in order to create a mysticism about government and military matters to impress the commoners.

There’s even legislation and policy directives to require the government to use and require common language instead of jargon. In typical government action fashion it is of course only effective in a very limited, below threshold manner, but it also cannot affect the people in the private sector so use it to feel important to commoners and project their mediocrity to those in the know.

It’s very much the same kind of behavior as is common in the financial sector to cover and obscure and obfuscated the scheme.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#533

Post by aflag »

georgeg23 wrote: post #293
yalogin wrote: post #290

Do we have international agreement about what constitutes sovereign space in the sky and what doesn’t? I mean at what height does it make it not okay to shoot down an object another country sent up? Is it at the height of the low orbit satellites? Should it be out of the earth’s gravitational pull? Or can China shoot down one of US’ low orbit satellites saying it flew over its airspace?

There is no agreed altitude. > can China shoot down one of US’ low orbit satellites saying it flew over its airspace? These balloons beg that question.... The first one was even made to look like a satellite.

I think it'd be hard to argue that something that's no even in orbit is not in a country's airspace.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#534

Post by carlosjobim »

c3534l wrote: post #452
willis936 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure they haven't only tested/demonstrated that capability? I haven't heard of an actual satellite warfare incident yet. That would be a very huge deal.

I'm getting superfluous search results because of recent news, but yes, this was a decent news story many years ago. The US basically said "fair enough."

Give at least one source, I've never heard of anything like it.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#535

Post by [deleted] »

handedness wrote: post #399
viscanti wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UN is certainly something more than that, and not literally just a forum. Maybe it depends if you're a UN member with a veto or not. It's possible that having a veto changes how one would perceive and interact with the UN.

Certainly. Nukes, too.

[deleted]

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#536

Post by e12e »

somenameforme wrote: post #449
e12e wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for pointing that out - I never paid much attention to the lyrics (my German isn't great). Fitting prelude and postlude to Alphaville - Forever Young...

Wow! I was just about to say they did the song in English as well, when your post sent me on a web crawl. I never realized that the English version is "censored"! The English version is relatively playful and only really references the worst in metaphor. Whereas the German version overtly describes the reality of war, and what motivates it. This makes the Goldfinger cover (which is awesome) make all the more sense. A…

I'm fairly certain the Norwegian broadcasting service (NRK) usually plays the German version - but I might be misremembering. I suppose now would be the time to find out, given the news cycle - I'm sure some clever dj has dug it up...

Btw, original "official" music video:

https://youtu.be/Fpu5a0Bl8eY

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#537

Post by willis936 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #429
willis936 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure they haven't only tested/demonstrated that capability? I haven't heard of an actual satellite warfare incident yet. That would be a very huge deal.

Information about satellite warfare incidents is tightly classified. Nonetheless, it is a bit of an open secret that these types of incidents (not necessarily lasers) have escalated markedly in recent years. The countries most affected by this tend to be those that are not traditional space powers but nonetheless have many space assets e.g. Western Europe.

You cannot hide satellites or debris from a satellite being destroyed. Everything close to Earth is large enough to be spotted from reflected light. Everything far away is spotted with radar. There are many private and government players across the globe who care deeply about what is occupying what orbits because it is a finite resource.

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#538

Post by rasz »

amelius wrote: post #174
DebtDeflation wrote: post #5

On the one hand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_balloon >Between 900 and 1,300 locations around the globe do routine releases, two or four times daily. On the other hand, weather balloons are not silver-gray and cylindrical. A Google image search shows them almost always white and spherical to teardrop shape and pretty much unmistakably a balloon.

> Between 900 and 1,300 locations around the globe do routine releases, two or four times daily. Are the electronics in these balloons recovered eventually? Or is it just basically e-waste?

EEVblog #1207 - ARM Dev Boards Falling From The Sky! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQq8V73b4io

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#539

Post by phpisthebest »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #310
phpisthebest wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>and that matters a lot. Does it? and even if it does do they need to release the full resolution... you seem to be creating strawmen just to justify the government doing thing in secret, seems like an odd position. And quit with the "adversaries" scare mongering, it will get you no where with me other then enteral cringe and eye rolling. This "but the other baddies might do something" has been the straw man to just…

Run for election to propose this. Many people disagree with absolute real time openness because it puts one at a disadvantage when adversaries are not.

This is about like saying Linux is at a disadvantage to Windows because it is open source

It is non-sense

Re: Military shoots down another high-altitude object, over Lake Huron: officials

#540

Post by megous »

ncallaway wrote: post #283
megous wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when MH17 was shot down, would Malaysia Airlines be responsible for harm done to people of Грабове, had it fell on this village directly? Any airliner is a flying object full of dangerous chemicals, flammable and toxic.

This seems like a bad faith twisting of the original question and response. The original question was about a balloon filled with a dangerous substance, not civilian air traffic. Civilian air traffic is regulated by the Chicago convention, and shooting it down would be undoubtedly be the responsibility of the nation shooting it down. The difference is largely one of consent. Nations have the right to control what hap…

Aside from the fact that the person releasing the baloon might not be a signatory and thus bound by the convention...

"Article 5: The aircraft of states, other than scheduled international air services, have the right to make flights across state's territories and to make stops without obtaining prior permission."

Seems like you don't need permission for a flyover using a baloon because it's not a scheduled international service...

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