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Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

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Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#141

Post by CamperBob2 »

bilqis wrote: post #130
CamperBob2 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once the dust settles, it will take less time to fix the pipeline than to repair Russia's international standing. That's true even if the pipeline is unsalvageable, because Russia certainly is. The sanctions aren't going away until Putin is replaced by someone sane. I don't expect that to happen anytime soon, do you?

I can easily imagine both a) countries restoring relationship with Russia with Putin and b) Putin by various reasons being replaced by another server of national capital, with some shifts in money, giving excuse to EU to reestablish relationship. EU was buying gas and oil from Russia for the last 40+ years, they were okay with pumping Russia with billions of euros even after Crimea annexation (and they still pump som…

I can easily imagine both a) countries restoring relationship with Russia with Putin

You have a vivid imagination, one that puts my own to shame.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#142

Post by thriftwy »

calgarymicro wrote: post #136
thriftwy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is also why Ukraine punched above its weight in the space sector In 1991 it was expected that independent Ukraine, a 52 million strong country, will basically be the next Spain. What did it punch in the space sector in the last 30 years? They did indeed inherit a huge chunk of USSR industry and science and nothing went out of it.

> In 1991 it was expected that independent Ukraine, a 52 million strong country, will basically be the next Spain. This was expected by who? At independence, Ukraine was one of the poorest countries in Europe, and it remains that way today.

This was expected by Ukrainians. They were talking about being the new France.

Ukraine fell behind even as far as their immediate neighbours are concerned.

The information about their participation in space programs were enlightening, though.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#143

Post by ajsnigrutin »

avmich wrote: post #121
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> expediting a post Russia energy future. Meaning what exactly? Very expensive gas, and in turn heat, and local factories closing down? Politicians can shit around all day, factories need cheap gas to work, people need jobs in those factories to be able to eat and heat their homes and heat is more expensive than ever.

People first need safety, and only after that working factories, and there's tremendous suspicion in Europe that here we have a replay of sad events some 80 years ago. Politicians can shit all day, and people can be gullible as worms, yet sometime they add two with two and figure out that spending more today and changing the energy sources for tomorrow may save them from having to spend all and above to maintain the…

For "the rest of the world", the "sad events" have been happening literally right now, or during the last 80 years... syria, libya, afghanistan, iraq, iraq again, yemen, yugoslavia, etc., but since it was "us" doing it, no sanctions were needed, and dead civilians didn't count. Syria is occupied right now by americans and you're shitting here about safety... Price Harry even went playing "war tourism" and went shooting afghani farmers and bragged about it... France has been fucking up africa for centuries too. I live in a shitty small slovenia, and even we sent soldiers to help the agressors in afghanistan and syria.

But yes, overinflated politicians are bragging about europe being civilization and everywhere else being a jungle... so yeah, maybe it's time for yankee/European to go home and keep for them/ourselves. If we don't, we have no moral superiority to blame putin for anything while our own soldiers are occupying foreign sovereign countries this very moment.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#144

Post by ajsnigrutin »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #110
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia controls the valves and germany controls the sanctions... anti-gas sanctions come from germany, russia closes the valve, no gas for germany. Then a cold winter comes, gas prices get very high (especially since the americans are inflating the price), german industry is fucked, people are paying a lot for heat (or being cold), and there's putin with "just lessen the sanctions, stop sending stuff to ukraine, and…

This analysis is not complete. By the time the pipeline was bombed, it was clear that the EU wasn’t going to cave into Russian demands to stop supporting Ukraine. So the pipeline sitting there usable but with no gas flowing would both create legal problems for Russia and also be a symbol of European unity. Regarding the US being able to sell LNG, the capabilities to transport and offload it in the quantities needed d…

> So the pipeline sitting there usable but with no gas flowing would both create legal problems for Russia and also be a symbol of European unity.

What legal problems? Is russia going to get sued? ...while EU is literally stealing russian assets and sending weapons to kill russians?

The situation on tv is one thing, but the people are fed up with ever more expensive lives while sending billions to ukraine, and enough angry people means huge changes in politics. The last time germany was so fucked by outside forces as it is now, they elected that austrian painter guy, who actually made the country strong again... sadly it ended up in a war and another fuckup of germany.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#145

Post by Swenrekcah »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #144
Swenrekcah wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This analysis is not complete. By the time the pipeline was bombed, it was clear that the EU wasn’t going to cave into Russian demands to stop supporting Ukraine. So the pipeline sitting there usable but with no gas flowing would both create legal problems for Russia and also be a symbol of European unity. Regarding the US being able to sell LNG, the capabilities to transport and offload it in the quantities needed d…

> So the pipeline sitting there usable but with no gas flowing would both create legal problems for Russia and also be a symbol of European unity. What legal problems? Is russia going to get sued? ...while EU is literally stealing russian assets and sending weapons to kill russians? The situation on tv is one thing, but the people are fed up with ever more expensive lives while sending billions to ukraine, and enough…

You are obviously quite sympathetic to Putin’s viewpoint here and I’m not going to try and persuade you otherwise.

I’m merely pointing out that there are some reasons for Russia to have bombed the pipeline.

The Hitler reference is just weird.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#146

Post by bandyaboot »

philippejara wrote: post #97
bandyaboot wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia had zero logical reasons to blow it up. I don’t have any trouble believing that Putin’s devotion to rational decision making is less than complete at this point—particularly when it comes to doling out retribution to the west. The idea that the US would risk making itself a pariah amongst its NATO allies, particularly right now does not seem believable to me.

The US had no qualms making itself a pariah amongst its UN allies by spying on them back in 2010, germany included, when biden was still vice president no less, so I don't think that's much of an argument against them doing it. Especially when you are talking about NATO, an organization where the US power imbalance is even higher. That isn't enough to blame them for it of course, but to assume that Putin is not behav…

Spying on a close ally is not even remotely comparable to destroying said ally’s means of getting energy.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#147

Post by bandyaboot »

willcipriano wrote: post #118
bandyaboot wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans routinely prioritize retribution over rationality.

That goes for our guys too.

Except between the US and Russia, Russia is the country where one man is in complete control with no checks on his whims.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#148

Post by bandyaboot »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #95
bandyaboot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not even just a little difficult for you to believe that the US would risk totally destroying its standing within NATO in order to do something that Russia was already doing on their own accord?

"US standing within NATO?" I have news for you, US is NATO. It does not care what it's "allies" say. And it will do all it can to make them toe the line. And that line is: Russia is the enemy that needs to be dismantled and destroyed. You shall not deal with Russia, period. Why is it difficult for you to understand this simple logic?

Why is it difficult for you to understand that Europeans have agency and pride like anyone else and they would not “toe the line” if the US did something so brazen and aggressive. It’s absurd.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#149

Post by bandyaboot »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #90
bandyaboot wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if you guys are being deliberately obtuse with stuff or what, but the Nordstream pipeline can deliver gas to Germany—that’s it. If circumstances change such that Russia no longer wants to deliver gas to Germany, the pipeline has no value to them. It doesn’t matter that it’s theirs. It’s not like they can use it for something else.

Russia controls the valves and germany controls the sanctions... anti-gas sanctions come from germany, russia closes the valve, no gas for germany. Then a cold winter comes, gas prices get very high (especially since the americans are inflating the price), german industry is fucked, people are paying a lot for heat (or being cold), and there's putin with "just lessen the sanctions, stop sending stuff to ukraine, and…

I’d argue Putin is a winner. The Nordstream pipelines were essentially switched off money printing machines that could be switched on at any point if powerful Russians decided it was time to remove Putin. No longer the case now.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#150

Post by InTheArena »

bigdict wrote: post #133
InTheArena wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, but keep up trying on the whataboutisms.

There's no power in your posturing when the situation is symmetrical like that :)

Iraq gassed their own citizens, tried to assassinate a U.S. president, invaded their neighbors, engaged in terrorism (not Al Qaeda). At the time of the gulf war there were regularly trying to shoot down iUS and NATO aircraft in the no-fly zone designed to keep Saddam from killing the Kurds. Iraq was a horrible mistake and tragedy - but no oil was stolen, nor was territory seized. While many people died, there was never any systematic assault on civilian populations - Iraq became a disaster because of an Iraqi civil war. It was a single country.

Russia is invading a country whose security they guaranteed. They are raping and murdering people, flattening cities and directly targeting infrastructure that is only for civilian purposes. They are attacking those who are not a threat to them, and never engaged in any of the above causes beli. They are I’m doing so to enlarge their nation and subjugate others. They are threading the same to other nations. They unleashed the largest European war since WWII.

So if you see that as symmetric, there is almost nothing we can discuss in an objective way.

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