Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 129 posts

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#101

Post by deely3 »

wpietri wrote: post #70
giantg2 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any group who becomes part of the system will then act to protect the system. I mean, judges are supposed to grant warrants for things already, yet we continually see stories of them just rubber stamping requests, or police lying to obtain them. I assume that system would suffer similar issues.

Every system suffers abuse issues. Which is why I think we should look for systems that minimize that.

Seriously, do we have any idea how such systems will work? Is it even possible to build such system?

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#102

Post by saiya-jin »

azinman2 wrote: post #88
saiya-jin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That... is not anyhow related to the discussion, nor an argument for/against anything on this page. And thank you for your ancestors bravery.

Did you read the page that the GP specifically called out? And yes, none of it is related to MKUltra or the linked topic… which makes it all the more infuriating that this comment is still up and not flagged for removal.

Yes that site is antisemitic and is not even trying to hide it. I was just referring to comment that didn't even bother to read the document. Page 119 of that doc doesn't refer to anything re MKUltra or docs disposal, just some unverifiable antisemitic gibberish.

Unfortunately I can't report that post even with karma above 3500, hopefully somebody else can

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#103

Post by ethbr0 »

giantg2 wrote: post #95
ethbr0 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Congress and many executive positions, they are neither term-limited nor randomly selected.

Sure, term limits can be good in many ways, and random selection can reduce the people chosing it for the wrong reasons. But who is going to give up their career to be a citizen watcher for just a few years? Likewise, random selection may not yield a cohort with the correct capacity to properly administer the system. I'd almost think the better solution is to use mini-juries to evaluate warrants so the judges aren't…

> But who is going to give up their career to be a citizen watcher for just a few years?

A Citizen. Rights and responsibilities, etc.

> Likewise, random selection may not yield a cohort with the correct capacity to properly administer the system.

Of course. That's the downside of random cohorts. But compared to the alternatives (that we actively gripe about), occasional lack of ability is the lesser of two evils.

This would also be lessened if there weren't a way to get out of it. Don't want to serve when your number is called? Feel free to be a citizen of another country.

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#104

Post by landemva »

giantg2 wrote: post #95
ethbr0 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Congress and many executive positions, they are neither term-limited nor randomly selected.

Sure, term limits can be good in many ways, and random selection can reduce the people chosing it for the wrong reasons. But who is going to give up their career to be a citizen watcher for just a few years? Likewise, random selection may not yield a cohort with the correct capacity to properly administer the system. I'd almost think the better solution is to use mini-juries to evaluate warrants so the judges aren't…

> mini-juries to evaluate warrant

Typically this is a 'grand jury' in USA.

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#105

Post by willmadden »

philippejara wrote: post #49
willmadden wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s a general lack of confidence in the integrity of elections, especially given what’s been revealed in the Twitter files and that “mules” documentary. I don’t see how anything can change without election integrity and ensuring the standing government cannot interfere in elections. That’s the only way any of the government overreach can be curtailed. Bureaucrats aren’t going to oversee themselves. They w…

I don't think this is a problem of election integrity, the abuse is being done by un-elected people which while some are appointed most aren't. It is an accountability issue, call something a threat to national security and now everything's free game. The people doing those violations should at the very least be fired, but repeatedly doing them -or repeatedly overseeing them- should lead to jail, especially if it is…

I agree, but the lack of arrests despite hard evidence tells you all you need to know.

Every government employee that communicated with social media companies in order to suppress political speech during elections (or at all) violated their Constitutional oath. They must be arrested and tried for treason.

The NGOs that financed the mules that harvested ballots (except in CA where it is somehow “legal”) should be declared domestic terrorist organizations. The people who financed those NGOs need to do a perp walk.

There are mountains of evidence about dominion voting systems. There’s another worthy target.

That would be a good start towards restoring confidence.

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#106

Post by giardini »

trieste92 wrote: post #99
ck2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so weird to me that everyone assumes the NSA simply stopped recording all American phone calls because they were caught doing it and it was actually illegal.

whether they're recording or not is one question whether they can find a needle in a lake sized haystack is another

The problem is not whether "they can find a needle...", the problem is the the pointy things they "find" that are not needles:

"It Ain’t What You Don’t Know That Gets You Into Trouble. It’s What You Know for Sure That Just Ain’t So."

-anonymous

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/11/18/know-trouble/

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#107

Post by mistermann »

giantg2 wrote: post #96
mistermann wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any group who becomes part of the system will then act to protect the system. As a True/False binary, sure, but the magnitude of the phenomenon is a function of the quality of the system. As flaws are realized, the system can be improved. Consider how many known flaws there are in our various systems, and then observe (in an as unbiased as possible frame of mind as possible) how we (everyone (including us here on H…

"As flaws are realized, the system can be improved." One man's "flaw" is another man's "tool". The people in power exploiting the flaw are unlikely to fix it.

Under all approaches tried so far perhaps, but there are LOTS of approaches that we haven't tried. Heck, very few people can even get their mind to even consider alternative approaches, and actually trying things is a lot harder than that relatively simple task.

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#108

Post by halJordan »

olivermarks wrote: post #52

The word 'troubling' in the article sub head should be 'illegal'.

But that's the thing- it's not illegal. These programs were legislated by the Congress and have been before the Supreme Court multiple times. If you want it to be illegal you need to get on your congressmen.

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#109

Post by halJordan »

ren_engineer wrote: post #31

even if this gets fixed they can still use 5 eyes to get around it, US and friends use loopholes to have each other spy on their citizens to get around their own laws protecting citizens. It adds an extra step but they still get the info they want

Reverse targeting is even more explicitly illegal than what's in this article.

It's like you guys read the editorial of a wikikeaks article in 2012 and then never checked back in.

Re: The FBI’s most controversial surveillance tool is under threat

#110

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #86
henriquez wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not though, the CIA was ordered to release the MKULTRA records but _accidentally_ burned most of them instead.

I know about MKULTRA. I meant the Jew thing

Haha why did that comment get downvoted? Any downvoters want to explain?
Post reply on HN