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Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

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Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#61

Post by juve1996 »

wongarsu wrote: post #26
nordsieck wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, sabotage could also have been done by the other side, to point out the russian incompetence and drive them out even earlier, but the risk/reward does not make this likely. 1. NASA wants Russia to maintain a presence on the ISS. Many of the necessary functions for operating the ISS are spread across both the US (international) and Russian sides. If the Russians left, that would dramatically complicate operatio…

NASA isn't in the business of sabotaging, that would be the CIA. That means that 1. NASA cares about keeping the ISS alive, the CIA might have other priorities and care more about how this humiliates Russia much more than NASA 2. I would be more surprised if there were no CIA agents in the manufacturing pipeline of Soyuz spacecraft, never mind the launch site. Just strategically weaken some parts so they fail in orbi…

Seems unlikely, There's little to gain from this. There are far larger propaganda victories already that actually matter to the populace.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#62

Post by 0xDEF »

fastball wrote: post #8
hunter-gatherer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roscosmos sabotaging its own cosmonauts? I'd also be more deliberate with throwing around sound bites like "usual Russian incompetence". While I agree with there is a lot of cultural and political incompetence in Russia (and elsewhere) some incredibly advanced science and engineering has come fro Russia.

Didn't most of the advanced science and engineering come from the USSR?

A lot of that depended on contributions from the Baltic countries, Ukraine, and minorities within Russia like the Russian Jews and Germans. Many of the latter have been leaving Russia in droves since the 1980s.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#63

Post by baybal2 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #45
braymundo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

West stoles Russia money and now Russia is untrustworthy. Right. No. You broke your own "private property is holy right" dogma. Russia is not breaking its obligations. It even pays Ukraine for gas transfer right now, an act which many Russian people find weird and questionable.

[dead]

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#64

Post by wheelerof4te »

bandyaboot wrote: post #42
latchkey wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What possible reason would the Russians have to sabotage their own side of their won space craft? Some people believe the Nord pipeline blowup was self-sabotage. Update: I did not say I believe this myself. I'm just using this as a counter argument to say that the reasons might not be obvious at first glance and people tend to believe all sorts of things.

I don’t know if you guys are being deliberately obtuse with stuff or what, but the Nordstream pipeline can deliver gas to Germany—that’s it. If circumstances change such that Russia no longer wants to deliver gas to Germany, the pipeline has no value to them. It doesn’t matter that it’s theirs. It’s not like they can use it for something else.

Russia could just stop the flow of gas without blowing the pipeline up.

They had Zero reasons to blow it up and very good reasons to keep it alive if and when the Germans wanted that gas again.

The only beneficiary of the pipeline going bust are the USA.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#66

Post by bandyaboot »

bigdict wrote: post #58
bandyaboot wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right up until they prefer to deliver retribution by withholding gas.

Right, but the weapon is not the cutting of the supply, it's the threat. The fear that comes with uncertainty. There is no uncertainty when the pipeline is damaged irreparably.

Russia had already been increasingly cutting gas supplies to Europe before the Nordstream pipeline was sabatoged. They weren’t just threatening.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#67

Post by InTheArena »

vbezhenar wrote: post #45
braymundo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

West stoles Russia money and now Russia is untrustworthy. Right. No. You broke your own "private property is holy right" dogma. Russia is not breaking its obligations. It even pays Ukraine for gas transfer right now, an act which many Russian people find weird and questionable.

Don’t want to be under sanctions? Don’t invade other countries murder innocents, kill babies. Want to be trusted? Follow the treaties you signed. Don’t want to be accused of breaking g your obligations? Read the UN charter.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#68

Post by 5560675260 »

debacle wrote: post #27
upsidesinclude wrote: post #22

This comment section looks ridiculous. If the purpose of propoganda stories is to paint the Russians as untrustworthy to the Western world (hint: that is the purpose!) then it is surely effective.

Not sure why you are being downmodded, there's no need for "Russian" to be in the title here. This is a very common trope from alt-right media. If the culprit is ever black, Muslim, or an immigrant, they will absolutely let you know in the headline.

Doesn't alt right love Russia and especially Putin? How did it get on your "black, Muslim, or an immigrant" shortlist?

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#69

Post by dotnet00 »

rdl wrote: post #47
bombolo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science? Must every human endeavour generate profit?

It doesn't have to generate profit, but it does need to generate more science/better science than the next best alternative way to spend the money. (It's presumably not optimized solely for science, but also engineering and politics, both domestic and international, but it doesn't seem to be the most efficient way to accomplish what it accomplishes.)

The issue that comes up with 'efficiencies' in this context is that much of the money that has been spent at all on ISS-based science would probably not have been spent at all if it had to be done otherwise, because instead of a large up-front cost of the ISS + smaller cost of an experiment to be done inside or just tossed out an airlock, there would be no upfront cost and a large cost for a dedicated science satellite.

This is why Artemis is structured the way it is, the best way to guarantee that the US sticks to a commitment instead of every other president trashing the last one's work is to tie in so many international partners and so much large-scale up-front spending that it becomes too prestigious to cancel.

On top of that, there are lots of engineering benefits, where it's useful that we've learned the lessons from the ISS instead of needing to learn them later at the Moon or Mars or needing to have a sufficiently slow and expensive waterfall design process where they get figured out on the drawing board. Eg. simply being a destination for crewed spacecraft to go to is in itself useful as it creates a standard target to aim for. It allows SpaceX to discover that their toilet can leak urine into a compartment sometimes much faster because they're flying and refurbishing regularly.

It'd similarly be hard to quantify the benefit of things like regular resupply flights needed etc, considering that a big part of what helped SpaceX establish itself as a leader in the industry (and thus also giving rise to all of the other new launch companies and their potential technological improvements, private funding and cost reductions) was the ISS cargo resupply contract they won. Creating that regular demand has a similar effect on funding and costs as the emergence of megaconstellations as a viable project have had.

So, I'd say that ultimately the ISS is proving to have been worth the cost for the US. Without it acting as an easy destination, our space industry would be kinda like the SLS, absurdly expensive, very corrupt, barely usable and essentially non-existent (compared to the rest of the industry).

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#70

Post by HybridCurve »

openplatypus wrote: post #3

Are we at the point we should start suspecting sabotage? Or is this just usual Russian incompetence? This maybe news cycle bias, but since the Ukraine war, and threat of Russian pulling out of ISS program, these malfunctions have been more visible. Is anyone tracking these and similar incidents publicly?

It's a government space agency in a kleptocratic state, what other result would you expect?

Roscosmos has been under scrutiny for corruption and fraud for some time. I don't even think you could even attribute it to incompetence (on behalf of the professionals) because if you keep reducing funds and resources problems are going to manifest regardless.

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